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The Nightstar Zoo • View topic - 2019-4-16 Democracy was a mistake

The Nightstar Zoo

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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"I am both perfectly willing and able to decide the best course of action based on the wants and needs of everybody." "No, I want to argue pointlessly and accomplish nothing." "You're hired!"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Safari Exhibit
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The Electoral College was a mistake. Underpopulated areas full of wing-nuts shouldn't get to decide policy for a whole country.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:46 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:56 pm 
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Oohh . . . Petey fights dirty!

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:52 am 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:34 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:18 am 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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I mean, when you think about it, Peter is everybody's *Landlord*. These habitats wouldn't exist without him and him alone, and he has no reason to actually SELL and of the "land" he created.

Him letting people "help run the city" is a completely unnecessary bone that he throws the most vocal of his tenants to make them feel important.

The "Dominion" is less government than it is an enormous company town. One presumes that to live there you need to sign contracts and rental agreements.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Safari Exhibit
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:30 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:58 pm 
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And do you have enough to get through to harvest time?

Most major cities have three to five days of food . . . then it's Solyent Green and long pig.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:26 am 
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That's all true, but to be fair the rural people who would be seceding are not the ones who feed the cities. The ones who feed the cities are the massive mega farms run by cold heartless corporations who are just fine with the way things are run already since it makes them so much profit.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:35 am 
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"It's all well and good to let the perfect man run the government, but what happens when the perfect man gets a stomachache?"

That's the normal point brought up here.

Sadly, when the perfect man is literally running the life support systems and fighting to keep you all alive from intergalactic intangible entities, what happens is probably "everyone dies horribly".

Given Petey HAS shown he intends to do the right thing for everyone, and has shown to be reasonable when there's a better way of doing things, AND tries to ask permission first if doing so would provide a voluntary denial in time, signing up to help really isn't a bad deal.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:20 am 
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Safari Exhibit
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:04 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:40 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Last edited by Doug Lampert on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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If anybody tried to secede, he'd probably just dump them on some inhabited planet or station where they could find their own way somewhere. Like I said, he *built* everything in his territory, he's under no obligation to let people stay on them. He does so because he doesn't WANT to keep everybody out.

Exiling the really annoying ones is a better alternative.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:34 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:24 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:59 pm 
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My mother's side of the family used to all be farmers. I don't have the exact numbers, but my great uncle owns and still operates a huge wheat farm that goes for literally farther than you can see. Along with a dairy farm as a side operation. So yes, family farms are still a thing and can be quite large.

But my great uncle is the only farmer left and he's getting old. People are getting bought out by companies. My understanding, and I admit I have not researched this in depth, is that the big companies operate on a contract basis. They lease the seed and equipment to the small farms and then pay them some value for their crop at the end of the harvest. And the contracts are not in favor of the family farmers. So technically it's family farms growing the food, but they aren't the ones controlling production.

Anyway my point was that your individual farmer is not where the individual city dweller gets their food. There is a whole long supply chain through a variety of corporations that keeps things running. If the agricultural areas of the nation secede, then the corporations will continue to operate. And they will sell their goods where it is most profitable. Which is probably not grocery stores, but industrial applications or other countries, but grocery stores are on the balance sheet somewhere. Except now all their workers will be in much smaller less powerful countries that probably can't give them as much regulatory protection against unfair corporate contracts.

And they need those contracts because farmers produce far far more food than they need, but they don't produce the manufactured goods they need to keep their farms going. And in most cases don't produce the variety of foods either. So except for some tiny minority of survivalists who take self sufficiency to an extreme the farmers are dependent on trade too. Shoot when I was growing up we lived out in the middle of the boonies surrounded by cow and chicken farms and everyone still went to the grocery store.

Saying the farms can survive without the cities is just as narrow a view as saying the opposite. Sure farms grow their own food. But there's a reason cities exist, and it's not because they are parasites on the backs of the farmers. Cities are where things are manufactured. If suddenly trade gets cut off, then things will just get chaotic. I can't predict what would happen. The farmers would likely have a higher percentage of their population survive, but they would still suffer.

Which is beside the point, because if the rural areas do secede then the urban regions aren't going to just take that lying down and let the economic fallout hit by itself. There would be another civil war. And frankly the complexities of who would be seceding and who ends up with what parts of the army. And who gets the WMD stockpiles. And who can get international aid, or if the global community has been sent into a death spiral by the collapse of the United States, and many many other things are far beyond the scope of this discussion.

The end result is probably most of the cities being destroyed by rioting. The best farmland being bombed out wastelands, this is a war over agriculture after all so farms are targets, and millions dead on all sides. And that's being optimistic about no WMDs being deployed.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:25 pm 
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While many city dwellers are stupid enough to bomb the thing they're fighting for, it's unlikely to actually work . . . We couldn't make it work in WWII Germany.

As far as cities being where thing are manufactured . . . that is no longer true. Between the NIMBYs driving out manufacturing and the high costs of operating in cities, many manufacturing plants are now in rural or semi-rural locations.

No, the rural areas cannot do completely without cities, but they can hold out a lot longer than the cities can. Cities would have severe riots in days.

And the corporations might want to keep up business as usual, but it's unlikely they could. They would be unable to harvest, process or ship the food without a lot of rural people . . . who already hate the corporations.

Nobody would really win, but some would lose worse than others.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:39 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am 
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Where I am, the line seems to be around 50-60,000 people . . . smaller than that and they're rural, bigger than that and they're urban. (Though the line is fuzzy.)

The cities over that line run the rest of the state and the rest of the state hates them.


And people like that idiot Democrat that seems to think that the appropriate response is to nuke the rural areas into submission are not helping.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Yeaahhhhh, OtherKev's new girlfriend is *super* paranoid. And he doesn't even need to teraport your mind, he has access to your backups. He just has to make a backup and spin that up, your body is then, in military parlance, she'd understand, as she was a merc, just as "superfluous to requirements" as if he teraported her mind.

This lady is smart enough to think she's smart but too dumb to realize she's not.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:03 am 
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...

Depending on the effect this has on the remaining mass, doesn't this mean Petey could copy a person's brain without them really noticing, even without nannies?

_________________
Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:18 am 
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