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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:12 pm 
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ackehece wrote:
otoh that could imply more expensive tracer ammo doesn't in the future?


That's EXACTLY what that implies. Good tracer ammo (and they've already got prototypes, if not production stuff) doesn't leave a flaming trail. The back end of the bullet is an intense UV emitter. You have to wear goggles to see the trace. No goggles? No dotted line giving away the shooter's position.

(You have to spot the shooter based on the MASSIVE MUZZLE FLASH FROM HIS GINORMOUS WEAPON)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:39 am 
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so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

3) know where you are anyway?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:12 am 
ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

3) know where you are anyway?


Presumably you'd choose a particular wavelength of UV that your goggles can see, and it wouldn't be the same across the board.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:29 am 
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Howard Tayler wrote:
That's EXACTLY what that implies. Good tracer ammo (and they've already got prototypes, if not production stuff) doesn't leave a flaming trail. The back end of the bullet is an intense UV emitter. You have to wear goggles to see the trace. No goggles? No dotted line giving away the shooter's position.

(You have to spot the shooter based on the MASSIVE MUZZLE FLASH FROM HIS GINORMOUS WEAPON)
Conversely, there are advantages to visible traces. If your location is going to be visibly obvious anyway for whatever reason, one cannot misunderestimate the morale effects of visible bullets on the enemy. Invisible bullets just don't inspire the kind of terror in your enemies. They don't provide a tangible reminder that the bullets are headed their way.

Plus, they cost more. Stuff like that adds up when you're putting thousands of rounds across the field.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:39 pm 
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ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

... are still looking at the FRONT of the bullet, and Howard says the UV is emitted from the BACK.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:04 pm 
The team is there. There can be more on the way if necessary. Schlock is starting to do his puppy dog in a field of moving dog treats routine. We've seen that the round penetrate flesh easily. We haven't seen their effect against full armor. No matter how the sniper ends up getting dealt with it's going to be fun. I've been reading this strip since the first use of the anti-matter epaulets and it still makes me laugh regularly. Thank you Mister Tayler.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:26 pm 
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DJ Delorie wrote:
ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

... are still looking at the FRONT of the bullet, and Howard says the UV is emitted from the BACK.

...which will nicely illuminate your position as the tracer rounds are fired, so you still don't want your enemy to be able to see the spectrum used.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Tuyu wrote:
DJ Delorie wrote:
ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

... are still looking at the FRONT of the bullet, and Howard says the UV is emitted from the BACK.

...which will nicely illuminate your position as the tracer rounds are fired, so you still don't want your enemy to be able to see the spectrum used.


I doubt the emitters would be *that* bright, and they certainly wouldn't emit the UV in a focused beam like a spotlight.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:49 pm 
Tuyu wrote:
DJ Delorie wrote:
ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

... are still looking at the FRONT of the bullet, and Howard says the UV is emitted from the BACK.

...which will nicely illuminate your position as the tracer rounds are fired, so you still don't want your enemy to be able to see the spectrum used.


At the distances the bullet will be mere seconds away from your position, the flux of the light reaching your position is likely to be very, very low

Does a candle lit 400m away show great detail?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:55 am 
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Novulae wrote:

Does a candle lit 400m away show great detail?


not at 400m it would not
but add the intial UV from when it leaves the barrel with the muzzle flash and the flash will be even more intense in the UV spectrum...

and even if the UV emits from the rear it's not capable of being a nonscattering focused UV (unless you are postulating UV laser Tracer bullets 8O ) so the round will still be illuminated even from the front... and the Entire UV spectrum can be looked at fairly easily.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:31 am 
ackehece wrote:
Novulae wrote:

Does a candle lit 400m away show great detail?


not at 400m it would not
but add the intial UV from when it leaves the barrel with the muzzle flash and the flash will be even more intense in the UV spectrum...

and even if the UV emits from the rear it's not capable of being a nonscattering focused UV (unless you are postulating UV laser Tracer bullets 8O ) so the round will still be illuminated even from the front... and the Entire UV spectrum can be looked at fairly easily.


Easy fix: The tracer doesn't 'ignite' until 0.2 or 0.3 seconds after firing.
It doesn't need to be that bright to begin with, the illumination at that distance won't be significant, and why again would the round be illuminated from the front? There are plenty of UV opaque materials to make it so the only light gets emitted rearward.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:31 pm 
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It is amusing to note that this mess would not have occurred if they had simply let him have the plasma cannon. In an effort to reduce collateral damage, they have actually caused more of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:16 am 
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Less collateral damage from a plasma cannon? How, exactly?

Aside from the possibility that 500 meters is outside of the plasma cannon's effective firing range, which would have stopped Schlock from firing more than three or four shots, he would still have ended up walking his shots. And there is the possibility that the plasma cannon has an even lower muzzle velocity, which would have created more inaccuracy downrange...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:48 am 
. . that's assuming a plasma cannon works like a modern gun, firing a "bullet" of plasma.

Or, it could act like a flame thrower. A long gout of plasma which spatters as it hits.

Probably won't help avoid collateral damage, though. Probably increase it. But it'd be fun to try!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:58 am 
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The muzzle velocity of the BH-209 was specified to be "holy crap" which seems to imply far greater than bullet speeds. However, even without significant deviation in the stream, cavitation would gradually disperse it, so 500 meters is probably out of it's range.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:31 am 
Fishman wrote:
It is amusing to note that this mess would not have occurred if they had simply let him have the plasma cannon. In an effort to reduce collateral damage, they have actually caused more of it.


The same problems which affected Schlock's ability to return fire would have affected the plasma cannon as well


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:19 pm 
In a previous comic, (way back in the bad art days) it was mentioned that a plasma stream hits just under the speed of light. Station rotation should have very little, if any noticeable affect on the plasma stream. It just remains to be seen what the range is, I'm not sure if 500m is still in the effective range of Schlocks primary weapon, but I'd bet it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Didn't recall either of those. In Chalain's article, the "HOLY CRAP" speed is about .004c, or a little over 1300 km/sec. So, yeah, that's way faster than a bullet.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:29 pm 
People arguing about the effective range of the Plasma cannon are forgetting: Rocket Mode. And Schlock had two so one would be free to fire.

Figuring out if the Sniper could have gotten to a good hiding place before Schlock was in targeting range is a different question.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:30 pm 
Schlock has shows that he's quite capable of long-range accuracy with his plasgun in the past. I think the belief that this firefight would have been much shorter and less ugly if he had it instead of the lead firehose he picked up is perfectly valid.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:22 pm 
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That's hardly fair. In that example, he could hit anywhere on the right building and call it good-and did. Note that he slagged half of the dome before ceasing fire.

For peeling one sniper off a building without the "Sledge Hammer!" solution, that's UNSAT.

(and for those of you that have never experienced "Sledge Hammer!", here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QWlEH2v ... re=related Before there was Schlock, there was Sledge.)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:33 pm 
You're assuming that that turret is enormous, and not that it's apparent size is due to perspective. That and the fact that the last panel is commenting on his accuracy rather than his ability to pull the trigger really fast makes me assume that Schlock and co. are just really far away, and the turret was small enough to be slagged with one shot.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:29 am 
We reeeeeeeeeaallly need to get out more, I think . . . :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:16 pm 
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When Schlock shot out that turret he was hitting a target that was visually the size of a ball-bearing held at arm's length. It was an impressive shot, even if he did have to walk his plasma stream down just a little.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Howard Tayler wrote:
ackehece wrote:
otoh that could imply more expensive tracer ammo doesn't in the future?


That's EXACTLY what that implies. Good tracer ammo (and they've already got prototypes, if not production stuff) doesn't leave a flaming trail. The back end of the bullet is an intense UV emitter. You have to wear goggles to see the trace. No goggles? No dotted line giving away the shooter's position.

(You have to spot the shooter based on the MASSIVE MUZZLE FLASH FROM HIS GINORMOUS WEAPON)


Cool! I'll stick this in the "Schlock Science, Canonical" thread for future reference.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:03 pm 
Whitehawke wrote:
Howard Tayler wrote:
ackehece wrote:
otoh that could imply more expensive tracer ammo doesn't in the future?


That's EXACTLY what that implies. Good tracer ammo (and they've already got prototypes, if not production stuff) doesn't leave a flaming trail. The back end of the bullet is an intense UV emitter. You have to wear goggles to see the trace. No goggles? No dotted line giving away the shooter's position.

(You have to spot the shooter based on the MASSIVE MUZZLE FLASH FROM HIS GINORMOUS WEAPON)


Cool! I'll stick this in the "Schlock Science, Canonical" thread for future reference.


By all means, but don't include the UV emitter. That's current tech. All we know is that schlockiverse technology has tracers which are only viewable from behind.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:07 am 
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Heck, you could even just fire sharpened fiddly bits at the enemy, and ping them via the hypernet.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:36 pm 
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I think we need some hard data on how much the beam "firehoses" over a certain distance.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Variable, i think, depending on the setting, though it depends on how the settings work.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:06 am 
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ackehece wrote:
so

1) if the enemy is prepared with goggles to see stuff like that (prepared is the definition of a sniper)
2) they aren't blind (so see the muzzle flash)

they

3) know where you are anyway?


Suppose the tracer bullets were shaped like civil war mini balls with concave or even hollow backs. Only someone with the goggles viewing the tracers from behind would be able to see them. Presumably, your enemy is mostly forward of your position so even with uv goggles they wouldn't see the tracers. Actually, with this arrangement, you wouldn't even need uv, regular phosphor dots would work just as well and not require any special equipment. Plus, with phosphor in the tracers, they become weapons themselves.

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