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 Post subject: 2015-03-14 Ruined Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:23 am 
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Clever trick. Seems somewhat hasty, though, given that everyone's immediate attention is held by the Atlantis attack. If they play this right, they might even fudge up their own trail and pin most of it on the attackers.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:50 am 
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Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:28 am 
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Sendaz wrote:
Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).


And now I'm wondering why Bunni, and if it's because she's black, and what that has to do with anything, and how many black people are in the strip. Right now I've got three.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:03 am 
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"In the strip" as in currently, or ever?

If the latter, off the top of my head: Shep, Chelle, Ventura, Bunnigus, Emm, the adviser for the theme park owner that hired the Toughs way back in 2001, Rodriguez

Of course, given the titular amorph and the Xeno team being more frequently the subject of character focus, it's not like there's a lack of diversity among the Toughs, not to mention the various uplifted species, purps... :P

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:40 am 
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Arancaytar wrote:
Clever trick. Seems somewhat hasty, though, given that everyone's immediate attention is held by the Atlantis attack.


That distraction actually makes it the perfect time for Emm and Kowalski to "disappear", before hard questions start being asked about things like Mako and other dirty business they may be involved in. And before other elements of the UNS government not wanting their involvement in Emm and Kowalski's dirty business being known decide to make them disappear into the proverbial shallow grave.

Sendaz wrote:
Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).


I'm sure we'll find out when the time is right. It would be unwise for Emm to download to Bunny, as the Toughs are too notorious a group with too many enemies and at least one powerful friend who is well capable of uncovering her. Better she and Kowalski download into two unknown sleepers and disappear into anonymity's relative safety for awhile.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:09 am 
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macnut wrote:
Arancaytar wrote:
Clever trick. Seems somewhat hasty, though, given that everyone's immediate attention is held by the Atlantis attack.


That distraction actually makes it the perfect time for Emm and Kowalski to "disappear", before hard questions start being asked about things like Mako and other dirty business they may be involved in. And before other elements of the UNS government not wanting their involvement in Emm and Kowalski's dirty business being known decide to make them disappear into the proverbial shallow grave.

Sendaz wrote:
Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).


I'm sure we'll find out when the time is right. It would be unwise for Emm to download to Bunny, as the Toughs are too notorious a group with too many enemies and at least one powerful friend who is well capable of uncovering her. Better she and Kowalski download into two unknown sleepers and disappear into anonymity's relative safety for awhile.


Neither seem like the kind to give up power, so I'd think they'd be going into immediate, yet non-critical subordinates who would then step into power with some backdoors and dirt on potential competitors they left for themselves.

Also, this was apparently Kowalski's idea, so it may not be tremendously well planned, not that Emm's planning has gone great either though.

It raises a more interesting question though that hadn't really occured to me. Kowalski said before that sleepers he jacks who succeed get to upload a gestalt, but then what happens to them? Cyanide pill? That seems unlikely and a waste of valuable manpower. Do they have a stash of Kowalski clones running around somewhere?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:05 am 
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mesmorino wrote:
Sendaz wrote:
Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).


And now I'm wondering why Bunni, and if it's because she's black, and what that has to do with anything, and how many black people are in the strip. Right now I've got three.


Why Bunni? Because Doyt was Right!
So no, not Edward. Her mind is already taken, and The Old Dead Doctor would check for backdoors.

(Seriously though? Naaah.)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:04 am 
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aroduc wrote:
It raises a more interesting question though that hadn't really occured to me. Kowalski said before that sleepers he jacks who succeed get to upload a gestalt, but then what happens to them? Cyanide pill? That seems unlikely and a waste of valuable manpower. Do they have a stash of Kowalski clones running around somewhere?


I always assumed (hoped) that the people whose bodies they were prior to Kowalski hijacking them for black-ops purposes got restored from their last backups, which were hopefully recently, leaving them with a few days or less of missing time.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:33 am 
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mesmorino wrote:
Sendaz wrote:
Better question is where are they going?

Is Emm going to get a younger body or something similar to what she had?

First thing I thought of when I saw this what were the chances she would download into Doctor Bunnigus, but that seems pretty unlikely as am sure the doc has swept herself enough to have spotted any sleeper nannies (we hope).


And now I'm wondering why Bunni, and if it's because she's black, and what that has to do with anything, and how many black people are in the strip. Right now I've got three.


I thought of Bunni because Emm dealt with her here when the Doc talked Emm into scrubbing their memories originally rather than just shooting them all in the back of the head.

While Emm agreed to it, it would have also been a good time to implant a sleeper set of nanites as well in a few of the crew just in case, though it was probably more for her pet monster to use, but it still could have happened.

Plus having the doctor and chaplain ( I am assuming Emm will want to go to a female bod, but hey maybe playing chaplain may be a vacation for her. ;) )compromised also would mean they could have access to pretty much everyone (afterall who suspects the healer and confessor/resident shrink? ) as they would be the very two people you would expect to notice oddities/changes in the crew and otherwise report them.

But as I said, in hindsight it seems unlikely as unless Emm left some sort of programming to intentionally ignore them, Doc would probably have found and removed any suspect packages in their systems.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:49 pm 
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Petey would probably have swept out any back doors like that when he was flagging the false memories.

What confuses me is that they're running at all. I don't see how their position is worse than it has been, since other high-ranking members of the UNS apparently already knew something about what they were up to before the Toughs even arrived and the physical evidence disappeared in a massive fireball.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Am I the only one who thinks they're going into another set of their own bodies and just editing their memories? In this manner they'd be 'immune' to spilling any secrets they erase as they'd never have had those secrets, so no way to REDRip them.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:02 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks they're going into another set of their own bodies and just editing their memories? In this manner they'd be 'immune' to spilling any secrets they erase as they'd never have had those secrets, so no way to REDRip them.

You are not alone, though I had not thought of editing their memories during the changeover. My reaction was that their current bodies, having been modified by so many evolving versions of the Laz'r'us blood nannies, contain too much evidence of the very secrets Admiral Emm wants to bury and their is no sure way to 'clean' them. So Kowalski cloned some new bodies with the now publicly avow-able version of Laz'r'us, their minds get ported over, and the old bodies get fed to the nearest annie plant. Editing out some of the most incriminating memories, while dangerous, would make the coverup even better.

Feeling into the wild, however, is not something I would expect of a director of intelligence with her own battleplate. Too hard to fit the 'plate into your carry-on.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Psystorm wrote:
aroduc wrote:
It raises a more interesting question though that hadn't really occured to me. Kowalski said before that sleepers he jacks who succeed get to upload a gestalt, but then what happens to them? Cyanide pill? That seems unlikely and a waste of valuable manpower. Do they have a stash of Kowalski clones running around somewhere?


I always assumed (hoped) that the people whose bodies they were prior to Kowalski hijacking them for black-ops purposes got restored from their last backups, which were hopefully recently, leaving them with a few days or less of missing time.


If that's the case, then everyone was being incredibly melodramatic about Mako.

Well, right up to the point where she physically died.

(name here) wrote:
Petey would probably have swept out any back doors like that when he was flagging the false memories.

What confuses me is that they're running at all. I don't see how their position is worse than it has been, since other high-ranking members of the UNS apparently already knew something about what they were up to before the Toughs even arrived and the physical evidence disappeared in a massive fireball.


They're compromised now and they know it. They have to do SOMETHING to get uncompromised and out from effectively under Bala's thumb or all their intelligence, including I'm sure a bunch of stuff Bala and crew doesn't know, is also at risk. That's a bad position for an intelligence agency.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:33 pm 
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theycallmeb wrote:
My reaction was that their current bodies, having been modified by so many evolving versions of the Laz'r'us blood nannies, contain too much evidence of the very secrets Admiral Emm wants to bury and their is no sure way to 'clean' them.

Exactly. Fresh new bodies, fresh clean memories, probably just enough to be "trouble" and cover up the missing bits.

Or maybe 'tabla rasa', nothing incriminating left over, clean, fresh, new, innocent of their pasts. With the new Open Source Laz'R'Us their entire project became rather unnecessarily dirty.

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Feeling into the wild, however, is not something I would expect of a director of intelligence with her own battleplate. Too hard to fit the 'plate into your carry-on.

Unless she knows the heat would be so bad it would burn down the battleplate as well. In that case light baggage makes for faster fleeing.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:52 pm 
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Wonder how "migrating the selfstream" gets around the continuity flaw.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:24 am 
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aroduc wrote:
Psystorm wrote:
aroduc wrote:
It raises a more interesting question though that hadn't really occured to me. Kowalski said before that sleepers he jacks who succeed get to upload a gestalt, but then what happens to them? Cyanide pill? That seems unlikely and a waste of valuable manpower. Do they have a stash of Kowalski clones running around somewhere?


I always assumed (hoped) that the people whose bodies they were prior to Kowalski hijacking them for black-ops purposes got restored from their last backups, which were hopefully recently, leaving them with a few days or less of missing time.


If that's the case, then everyone was being incredibly melodramatic about Mako.

Well, right up to the point where she physically died.


Well, Mathilde hadn't backed herself up in years, which is why Kowalski said he couldn't fake "wife and mother" without the memories that weren't there. Now, we don't know why Mathilde hadn't backed herself up in so long, but we do know Kowalski expected otherwise, which implies that doing it more regularly than "once or twice a decade" is procedure. So Mathilde was definitely murdered by the creation of Mako, as there was no way to get a Mathilde back who even remembered their husband or (not exactly newborn) child. While a version of Mathilde would come back, it would be a version multiple years, if not almost a decade, out of date. In that case, yes, she was dead.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:52 am 
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Psystorm wrote:
Well, Mathilde hadn't backed herself up in years, which is why Kowalski said he couldn't fake "wife and mother" without the memories that weren't there. Now, we don't know why Mathilde hadn't backed herself up in so long, but we do know Kowalski expected otherwise, which implies that doing it more regularly than "once or twice a decade" is procedure. So Mathilde was definitely murdered by the creation of Mako, as there was no way to get a Mathilde back who even remembered their husband or (not exactly newborn) child. While a version of Mathilde would come back, it would be a version multiple years, if not almost a decade, out of date. In that case, yes, she was dead.


I'm pretty sure the reason he can't fake wife or mother is because he's a burly rough and tumble super soldier and those people intimately know her, her mannerisms, etc. Not because of a lack of data.

And that's kind of a reach given both Sorley and Kowalski's treatment of what happened to her. I doubt her backup schedule was part of the mission critical stuff Sorley got dumped too. If they could put Mathilde back in there minus a few months, years, or even decades, you'd think one or both of them would have acknowledged that at some point and either tried to keep her alive, or point out that it's not like the rest of the JSC cops and if he does his job right and well (which was to bag Schlock, so she probably wouldn't have even been in any kind of trouble for completing it), she gets her life back.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:43 pm 
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aroduc wrote:
I'm pretty sure the reason he can't fake wife or mother is because he's a burly rough and tumble super soldier and those people intimately know her, her mannerisms, etc. Not because of a lack of data.

Mako was a hybrid of Kowalski and Mathilde, so while Kowalski couldn't fake wife and mother Mako would have had what she needed to do it if Mathilde had a more recent backup for Kowalski to work with.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Grashtel wrote:
aroduc wrote:
I'm pretty sure the reason he can't fake wife or mother is because he's a burly rough and tumble super soldier and those people intimately know her, her mannerisms, etc. Not because of a lack of data.

Mako was a hybrid of Kowalski and Mathilde, so while Kowalski couldn't fake wife and mother Mako would have had what she needed to do it if Mathilde had a more recent backup for Kowalski to work with.


You're assuming he'd know everything that she did, which as we saw with the Gavs who were far more advanced, far more standardized (from the baseline), and far more compromised, was absolutely not the case.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:50 pm 
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aroduc wrote:
You're assuming he'd know everything that she did, which as we saw with the Gavs who were far more advanced, far more standardized (from the baseline), and far more compromised, was absolutely not the case.

And you're talking apples and elephants.

Mako was a hybridization of personalities and memories, mostly likely Kowalski, but more than enough of Libretti to allow Mako to keep up minimal appearances.

The Gavs were meant to be overwritten almost entirely by Kowalski and more than likely a lot more aggressively. You don't want any residual feelings of friendship, duty, or loyalty to get in the way of killing fellow Gavs, whereas Mako needed the intuitive reactions to her job, superiors and fellow officers to remain in place.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:41 pm 
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aroduc wrote:
I'm pretty sure the reason he can't fake wife or mother is because he's a burly rough and tumble super soldier and those people intimately know her, her mannerisms, etc. Not because of a lack of data.
If he had the data, he wouldn't have to fake it.

Kowaski make Mako by combining his personality and Mathilde. Unlike the Gavs, which he simply overwrote, he had a copy of her entire personality, albeit an out of date one. He used her most recent gestalt to build an appropriate personality, which he then downloaded into the sleeper. The reason why the husband and child had to go was because the data he had on her, the gestalt of Mathilde, was so out of date it had none of her memories of being a mother and wife. And Kowaski, being a rough and tumble wetwork agent, couldn't fake the missing data.

So yes, Kowaski did know almost everything Mathilde knew, he had all of her memories from the last time Mathilde checked in on file .


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:53 pm 
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I simply see no evidence whatsoever about this hybridization you guys are claiming. She had minimal contact with her superior (and presumably hasn't had the same one as she did for years anyway), so there was nobody she needed to potentially fool except for husband and child, and it's a much simpler explanation that career black ops muscle can't fake being wife/mommy period, not just because he was missing memories. The gestalt was said a couple strips later to be used for setting up his own selfstream into her (experiential and muscle memory), presumably so he doesn't trip over his own feet in the new body.

Unless I missed something entirely, there was never any indication whatsoever that any of Mathilde or her personality was left. In fact, this rather clearly indicates he pushed her out entirely.
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-06-14


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:13 am 
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Emm is being very trusting of Kowalski here, especially since she has no technical understanding of the procedure. Might be a mistake. Surely, despite the dirt file that Bala-Amin has on her, it would be safer for Emm to stay in her current position and body and play nice-nice with Bala-Amin rather than do something drastic like this


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:01 am 
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aroduc wrote:
I simply see no evidence whatsoever about this hybridization you guys are claiming.

Unless I missed something entirely, there was never any indication whatsoever that any of Mathilde or her personality was left. In fact, this rather clearly indicates he pushed her out entirely.
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-06-14

Except every mental image from then forward was of Mako, not Kowalski. This suggests the mental image was altered, a hybridizing of Kowalski and Mathilde.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:56 am 
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Arky wrote:
Emm is being very trusting of Kowalski here, especially since she has no technical understanding of the procedure. Might be a mistake. Surely, despite the dirt file that Bala-Amin has on her, it would be safer for Emm to stay in her current position and body and play nice-nice with Bala-Amin rather than do something drastic like this


Emm may be so desperate to escape whatever consequences of exposure she feels are coming their way, that she sees no other choice but to trust Kowalski's exit plan. She probably expects to be executed (or murdered) anyway if she tries to "play nice-nice", so has decides to take her chances with her "monster" of a comrade/subordinate.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:05 pm 
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Admiral Emm's new body:

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-12-02


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:40 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
aroduc wrote:
I simply see no evidence whatsoever about this hybridization you guys are claiming.

Unless I missed something entirely, there was never any indication whatsoever that any of Mathilde or her personality was left. In fact, this rather clearly indicates he pushed her out entirely.
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-06-14

Except every mental image from then forward was of Mako, not Kowalski. This suggests the mental image was altered, a hybridizing of Kowalski and Mathilde.


Kowalski is fond of saying something that sounds completely evil and then doing something that is nowhere near as evil, and actually compassionate (e.g. saying "the husband and kid have to go" and then sending them on a cruise). My guess is that this was a similar situation. It wasn't Mathilde had to be erased, it was that they had to merge.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:38 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks they're going into another set of their own bodies and just editing their memories? In this manner they'd be 'immune' to spilling any secrets they erase as they'd never have had those secrets, so no way to REDRip them.


No--they're going into sleeper bodies, with their self-stream (the point of conciousness) being transferred to the new bodies. I assume that getting the data at the instant of transfer requires destructive reading. It would be much like being gate-cloned with the original being destrroyed the instant the copy was made. There would be no [edit] perceptible [/edit] continuity flaw.

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