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The Nightstar Zoo • View topic - 2016-07-07: Strike "murderous" from the title of the Psychob

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:08 pm 
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Hello character limit my old friend.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:20 pm 
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Clearly, he's becoming a long-term investment banker :-)

(Invest 3 warships, which will be missed, into 28 people for years into the future, )

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I hope Para never plays with Tenzy. The result would be terrifying.
Para and Petey need to have some dialog together. Just because.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:55 pm 
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Ships can be replaced. If their gestalts were saved, that's great. If not, he lost three PD's to save 28 enemies. He has to determine if the cost was worth it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:14 pm 
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Doubt it's even any loss of memories. Why wouldn't he keep a constant sync? If anybody has spare bandwidth, it's probably him.


Let's get philosophical, though. How many forevers has Petey lost by now?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:41 am 
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Well, I'm not going to take much credit for it; it's a variation of the 'Star Trek transporter kills you' argument.

It only really works if you both thnk there's an immortal soul and DON'T think that it goes with you, or you really, really care about Continuity as it pertains to psychology. (a decent example of this is a recent game called SOMA.)


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I hope Para never plays with Tenzy. The result would be terrifying.
Para and Petey need to have some dialog together. Just because.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Last edited by Sean on Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:19 pm 
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So only the CNS and lens of the eye remains the same over ones lifetime. More or less, okay. But let's extrapolate some medical technology here, for the Schlockiverse. Well, BRING UP rather than extrapolate. They're already able to clone entire new bodies for heads, and lay a neural mesh for new brain matter to grow onto.

How is Murtagh's scenario any different from what happened to Haban II? Doyt II died and Haban II grew into the re-grown brain. Murtagh died and her backup was put into her regrown brain.

Der Trihs was regrown like six times, and his (fabricated, but still) backstory was that part of his brain was EATEN and they regrew the missing parts. I think it's safe to say that by the 32nd century of the Schlockiverse they can, even without Laz'R'Us, rebuild somebody completely. All that was missing was a way to transfer consciousness. The Old Doctor had his mind copied as a Personagram, which was obviously a different technology to RED; it was just data, not a gestalt.

Consider this. If you cloned somebody, an exact copy, and then MOVED, not copied, their mind to the new body....are they the same person? Is that a 'lost forever'?

Think of this as the 'Clone of Theseus' question.

(ignore for the moment that data is never actually 'moved' with computers, it is copied to the new destination then deleted from the original. Though Kowalski and Emm seemed to do just that with their Selfstream into new bodies. Those were already people, but bear with the scenario for the moment)


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Last edited by Sean on Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I hope Para never plays with Tenzy. The result would be terrifying.
Para and Petey need to have some dialog together. Just because.


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"A sufficiently-advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
Jack L. Chalker
"Magic is just another way of saying 'I don't know how it works.'"
Larry Niven
"Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those who don't understand it."
Florence Ambrose


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:58 pm 
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I believe there is no such thing as a forever, and that souls are constantly being renewed.

Take this example:

Let's take Gav.

Put Gav into a bubble universe, just stable enough for him to survive. Tell him to flip a coin. Now there are two universes that are identical with identical Gavs. Both Gavs are the original. Now pull both Gavs back into the same universe. You now have two identical Gavs, neither of which have a continuity gap. They are both the original and they are both the same forever. Now let's give Gav A a billion dollars, and Gav 1 a mail-order bride. Gav A decides to invest his money into a business, and becomes very successful. Gav 1 settles down and starts a family. They now have different forevers, one as a billionaire, and one as a family man.

Now make ten thousand Gavs using the bubble universe method. All are identical, and all have the same Forever. At this point their forevers become meaningless, because until they distinguish each other their forevers are meaningless. You put all then thousand on a station that will fail unless nine thousand are killed? There's no way to pick from any of the ones that you haven't even seen yet, and they won't be missed until there is someone who has distinct memories of that one particular Gav.

Now take Tagon. Tagon had the choice of staying in Petey's gilded cage or to venture out to stay a mercenary. If he chose to stay, he would have a much different (and probably shorter) forever then when he went out and explored Eina-Afa. Every decision you make puts you on a different forever, and therefore you lose forevers for every decision you make (or is made for you). Back to the Thesis ship example, It is only the same ship as long as it is decided to be the same ship. It could have all-original parts but be sold to someone else and therefore not the Thesis ship. It could have parts replaced that makes absolutely no difference, or it can have a engine installed which makes it perform and act very much different then the ship it used to be. It could be permanently destroyed and replaced with an identical model, which is considered to be the same ship by everyone who did not know it has been replaced. The ship itself is not it's identity, it's the memories of it and the name painted on it. Paint on a new name and sail it to new waters and it will be considered to be a completely different ship.

The same goes for us. Our physical bodies do not matter nearly as much as the information encoded in our brains, and in the brains of those who know us. That's why the gate-interrogations work; since nobody knew that the person was made of different matter - not even the person himself. A continuity gap doesn't exist if you are not aware of it. And it only matters if you let it.

You can lose forevers just by acting different. If you have a severe headache, you will act completely different from how you will act without a severe headache. Those around you would consider you to be a different person, if it wasn't for the knowledge that you used to act different. They choose to accept that you are the same person, but they can also choose NOT to accept you are the same person. If you have a stroke and have a severe and permanent personality change, People are more likely to consider you to be a completely different person despite still having the same body (minus a few cells here and there that were replaced). A ten year old kid would be completely different from a twenty year old student who is completely different from a thirty year old family man. They may be the same person, but their body, lifestyle, and personality has changed so much they cannot be the same person. Put all three of them in the same time period and they are not interchangeable. They family man would recognize the other two only because he remembers being them, while the kid would only see two strangers that know his deepest darkest secrets.

It's much easier to think "Yes, this being is an Ebby. I will fix his brain so that he acts more like an Ebby I used to know. I miss the Ebby I used to know" - and leave it as that.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:44 pm 
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