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 Post subject: 2016-11-2: Trojan Soseki
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Ah, so that was the plan.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:27 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Ah, so that was the plan.

I did not see that coming.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:29 pm 
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alpha wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Ah, so that was the plan.

I did not see that coming.

Me either--and frankly, though it makes more sense than hacking the shosheki, it seems ... somewhat less satisfying. And definitely outside of Para's regular MOS.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Black Sheep wrote:
alpha wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Ah, so that was the plan.

I did not see that coming.

Me either--and frankly, though it makes more sense than hacking the shosheki, it seems ... somewhat less satisfying. And definitely outside of Para's regular MOS.

Direct access vs "not enough time; revenge now hack later" I guess.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:18 pm 
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Damn you. You wasted such a setup. This strip was pretty much begging to title the thread as "such soshe", "much wow" or something like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_(meme)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:05 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Damn you. You wasted such a setup. This strip was pretty much begging to title the thread as "such soshe", "much wow" or something like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_(meme)

I've ran out of clever titles long ago. But whenever i let someone else come up with a witty title they usually abuse the privilege by not adding a proper date to the title.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Yeah. So awesome
She just killed a whole bunch of beings, who had no idea what the hell was going on. And had no part in attacking them

Well done
Choke on the lack of glory there, sweetie


Also..
For the love of whatever, get a big white bedsheet, and wave it. I'm sure SOMEONE still remembers THAT one


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:41 pm 
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Remember, the Toughs have no idea that it was only one faction of the colony that attacked them. The Wing Marshal didn't bother informing them of this before taking off and basically leaving the rest of the colony to take the fall for his actions.

Also recall that the Wing Marshall had his toady cut off all outside communications so the colony administrators can't hail the Toughs and proclaim their innocence. So the deaths of those beings are as much on his conscience as on the Toughs'.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:07 pm 
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I for one thank you for not memeing the title. The in-comic meme was traumatic enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:18 pm 
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kham wrote:
Yeah. So awesome
She just killed a whole bunch of beings, who had no idea what the hell was going on. And had no part in attacking them

Well done
Choke on the lack of glory there, sweetie


I assume the EMP was an incapacitant, not a straight-up killer. If Para wanted to kill them, she could've just sent in a remotely-controlled bomb.

Quote:
Also..
For the love of whatever, get a big white bedsheet, and wave it. I'm sure SOMEONE still remembers THAT one


The humans knew nothing about the Esspererin when this book started; what makes you think that Esspererin, in turn, are knowledgeable about this particular human tradition?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:36 pm 
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Oh, don't worry. They are not dead. But after Para is done with them, they will wish they were. Or maybe not, because they will love Para too much to ever abandon her.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Mech wrote:
Damn you. You wasted such a setup. This strip was pretty much begging to title the thread as "such soshe", "much wow" or something like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_(meme)

Image



Barmaglot wrote:
kham wrote:
Yeah. So awesome
She just killed a whole bunch of beings, who had no idea what the hell was going on. And had no part in attacking them

Well done
Choke on the lack of glory there, sweetie


I assume the EMP was an incapacitant, not a straight-up killer. If Para wanted to kill them, she could've just sent in a remotely-controlled bomb.

Ye-up. This probably just 'killed' the Sosheki, leaving the Essperrin trapped inside.


Of course if it killed the Esspies too, who cares? They were going to fight the mercs regardless, they had orders which couldn't be countermanded.

Quote:
Quote:
Also..
For the love of whatever, get a big white bedsheet, and wave it. I'm sure SOMEONE still remembers THAT one


The humans knew nothing about the Esspererin when this book started; what makes you think that Esspererin, in turn, are knowledgeable about this particular [i]human tradition?

Also the people who want to use said whiteflag currently can't.




Kham did you even bother to read the previous three strips?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:52 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Oh, don't worry. They are not dead. But after Para is done with them, they will wish they were. Or maybe not, because they will love Para too much to ever abandon her.

Much scary, very evil.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:25 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
Oh, don't worry. They are not dead. But after Para is done with them, they will wish they were. Or maybe not, because they will love Para too much to ever abandon her.

Much scary, very evil.


Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:15 am 
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kham wrote:
Yeah. So awesome
She just killed a whole bunch of beings, who had no idea what the hell was going on. And had no part in attacking them

The shosheki riders in tghe bay may not have had an active part in the attack, but they most certainly did know what was going on--if Wing Commander "Sticky-Wings" had not abandoned them, they would have been part of the attack force. I can only assume they had the same briefing as the soldiers who did make it to be deployed.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:04 am 
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Meme in the strip? I read that as Para using broken Esspie, because she didn't have enough of a language sample to turn out a native-level translation.

Or, she could have had enough of a sample, but insufficient time/resources to make a high-quality translator with it. That's less credible, considering the run-time speeds of the AI's around her, whom she could delegate that task.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:00 am 
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macnut wrote:
Remember, the Toughs have no idea that it was only one faction of the colony that attacked them. The Wing Marshal didn't bother informing them of this before taking off and basically leaving the rest of the colony to take the fall for his actions.

Also recall that the Wing Marshall had his toady cut off all outside communications so the colony administrators can't hail the Toughs and proclaim their innocence. So the deaths of those beings are as much on his conscience as on the Toughs'.

Far more on his than on the Toughs. It's even more on the civil government of the Espies than the Toughs, because THEY are the ones who lost control of their military and who still haven't found a way to surrender. It's the Espies job to figure out how to surrender or not be targets. Not the Tough's job to figure out which of the people shooting at them are actual enemies. That sure looks like a hostile staging area (it was in fact intended to be a hostile staging area, it's only the loss of their teraports and of some communication that renders it otherwise), its a legitimate target.

In any case, in our world, when the military of a state makes an organized attack on someone, all members of that state's military not marked as medics or otherwise clearly indicated to be non-combatants are legitimate targets. And we have absolutely no evidence that the Tough's universe has any protection for medics (and substantial evidence that medics are in fact considered combatants in the Tough's universe), so enemy soldier + not actively surrendering == legitimate target.

If you want to claim Para did something wrong, then I'll point out that false flag operations are usually considered war crimes in our world unless you find a way to drop the false flag/identify yourself prior to opening fire, maybe she had her transponder start squawking a Tough's ID a microsecond before she opened up. Or maybe the Tough's universe doesn't use that rule at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:19 pm 
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I could be wrong, but I think when one side throws away the rule book, the other side is no longer obliged to abide by it either.
The Esspies staged a covert attack on an ally, with no declaration of war. At this point, I think the toughs, and the UNS, are within their rights to nuke 'em 'till they glow, should they so choose.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:44 pm 
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Sean wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think when one side throws away the rule book, the other side is no longer obliged to abide by it either.


Oh how I wish it worked that way in the real world...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Sean wrote:
Meme in the strip? I read that as Para using broken Esspie, because she didn't have enough of a language sample to turn out a native-level translation.

Or, she could have had enough of a sample, but insufficient time/resources to make a high-quality translator with it. That's less credible, considering the run-time speeds of the AI's around her, whom she could delegate that task.


Considering that she already built espee-galstandard (west? I forgot) translator, that possibility is out of the question.
Vocabulary/grammar (no, grammar is not too much of a word, like it or not, meme speech patterns DO qualify as form of grammar) used and that of Doge meme match perfectly, which makes coincidence rather unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.
If reference is deliberate, it might be included just as a joke, or might serve some other purpose. For example, Sosheki are supposed to be dumb without the pilot, making them use meme-speak might be a statement about the trend. Alternatively, since it references Doge, it might be supposed to indicate that they are more of a war dogs than war horses. I however find it most likely that it's just a joke.

Sean wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think when one side throws away the rule book, the other side is no longer obliged to abide by it either.
The Esspies staged a covert attack on an ally, with no declaration of war. At this point, I think the toughs, and the UNS, are within their rights to nuke 'em 'till they glow, should they so choose.


You would make a wonderful war criminal.
Some rules require compliance of both sides and are voided when one side breaks them. Others don't, and always remain in full effect.
Personally I expected Toughts to threaten nuking the colony to force surrender and extort information, but seems they have better idea.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:28 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
If reference is deliberate, it might be included just as a joke, or might serve some other purpose. For example, Sosheki are supposed to be dumb without the pilot, making them use meme-speak might be a statement about the trend. Alternatively, since it references Doge, it might be supposed to indicate that they are more of a war dogs than war horses.

I suspect she cored it and was riding a brain dead Sosheki, improvising the speech patterns of a wounded one.

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I however find it most likely that it's just a joke.

I suspect it's a bit of both.


If it were the Maraca in the Sosheki, we'd all know it was a deliberate reference.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:22 pm 
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The Sidekick are supposed to be the equivalent of horses. When's the last time you seen a horse give a grammatically correct speech? Bojack doesn't count.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:56 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
The Sidekick are supposed to be the equivalent of horses. When's the last time you seen a horse give a grammatically correct speech? Bojack doesn't count.


And :twisted: "A horse is a horse, of course of course..."

Also the Mercenaries are, well mercenaries, rather then a nation-state, and technically in the service of the Esspee civil government for purpose of securing the system, So no "false flag" at all, they were engaged in suppressing a piracy, which is a crime against all flags in and of itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:08 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
The Sidekick are supposed to be the equivalent of horses. When's the last time you seen a horse give a grammatically correct speech? Bojack doesn't count.

The Sosheki are ridden, I believe that is what makes them 'like horses'.

But regardless, when's the last time you saw an elephant give a grammatically correct speech?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:06 pm 
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Five years ago or so. I believe it went "I am not an animal!" "I am a human being!"

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:45 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
The Sidekick are supposed to be the equivalent of horses. When's the last time you seen a horse give a grammatically correct speech? Bojack doesn't count.

The Sosheki are ridden, I believe that is what makes them 'like horses'.

But regardless, when's the last time you saw an elephant give a grammatically correct speech?


Good morning, Corporal Chisulo. You have something you want to say?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Ishidan wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
But regardless, when's the last time you saw an elephant give a grammatically correct speech?


Good morning, Corporal Chisulo. You have something you want to say?

Technically, he's a neofant. He has hands. So I think the last time was on Mars.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Oh good, another AI has been taught how to love

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:58 am 
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Barmaglot wrote:
Sean wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think when one side throws away the rule book, the other side is no longer obliged to abide by it either.


Oh how I wish it worked that way in the real world...
It does occasionally in practice and usually gives rise to some variant of the ever-popular battlecry "Remember that atrocity they committed against us which will excuse the atrocity we are about to commit now (and which will totally not come back to bite us when the whole thing escalates even further)!"


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:19 pm 
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"Remember tunnel 17!"

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