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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:31 am 
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I'm going to be honest, that sounds like an interesting game. How do you make the narrative the antagonist?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:05 am 
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Player vs narrative is basically the contest of player agency and going off the rails vs the plot. EX. fallout 4, running about rather than doing the story.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:34 am 
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ExenTrik wrote:
I'm going to be honest, that sounds like an interesting game. How do you make the narrative the antagonist?

By giving it a conductor. Terry Pratchett's Witches Abroad is a good example, where a witch tries to use the power of story to turn herself into an all-powerful fairy godmother by turning a frog into a prince.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:06 am 
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I've not watched Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are dead, but considering some of the themes of that are the fact that they're secondary throwaway characters destined to die offscreenin a play that is frankly absurd to anyone not the main protagonists and the invulnerable embodiment of the narrator is constantly making fun of them to their faces, it's not difficult to see how the narrative itself can be the enemy.

"The story says you're going to die. What are you going to do about it?"

Now Hobbits indicate Lord of the Rings; there aren't any tragic secondary hobbit in The Hobbit, and Pippin and Merry are both pretty central and make out like bandits. So, there's two choices here: it'd be escaping the razing of the shire and possibly as many people as possible while leaving the shire burning AND convincing stubborn hobbits to escape, OR it's simply trying to get out of the sleepy hobbiton village without getting dragged back in to village politics.

I really don't know how to make it a twitchy button masher, though. I'd only describe a fighting game as a button masher.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:39 pm 
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And the people who are good at fighting games would not call them button mashers.

Yes, there are fighting games where you need to learn and execute ridiculous chord combos for certain moves. There are also some where you don't have that, there's a card-game version of a fighting game where people who don't have the finger-dexterity can play, and there's one fighting game with only a single button for each player -- and still considered a really good fighting game.

A good fighting game is rock-paper-scissors-break at it's core, with the whole idea that if you wait until you see the graphics of what the other player is doing, it's too late to block, but you may (depending on the game) be able to plan your next move. (Or not -- some games let your opponent juggle you once they get a hit.)

My biggest issue with fighting games is simply that I have yet to see one that is actually documented. Every one I've seen relies on each character having special moves that you have to experiment to learn, and no way to just go into "experiment mode" to practice, to learn them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:52 pm 
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keybounce wrote:
And the people who are good at fighting games would not call them button mashers.

Yes, there are fighting games where you need to learn and execute ridiculous chord combos for certain moves. There are also some where you don't have that, there's a card-game version of a fighting game where people who don't have the finger-dexterity can play, and there's one fighting game with only a single button for each player -- and still considered a really good fighting game.

A good fighting game is rock-paper-scissors-break at it's core, with the whole idea that if you wait until you see the graphics of what the other player is doing, it's too late to block, but you may (depending on the game) be able to plan your next move. (Or not -- some games let your opponent juggle you once they get a hit.)

My biggest issue with fighting games is simply that I have yet to see one that is actually documented. Every one I've seen relies on each character having special moves that you have to experiment to learn, and no way to just go into "experiment mode" to practice, to learn them.


Experiment mode costs two quarters, and you can only do it when the Arcade is dead. Basically, launch double player, and whale on the immobile second player until you learn all the moves.
Of course, by doing so, you've now spent two quarters rather than one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Sean wrote:
Experiment mode costs two quarters, and you can only do it when the Arcade is dead. Basically, launch double player, and whale on the immobile second player until you learn all the moves.
Of course, by doing so, you've now spent two quarters rather than one.

People still play these outside the comfiness of their own hone and console system?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:08 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Sean wrote:
Experiment mode costs two quarters, and you can only do it when the Arcade is dead. Basically, launch double player, and whale on the immobile second player until you learn all the moves.
Of course, by doing so, you've now spent two quarters rather than one.

People still play these outside the comfiness of their own hone and console system?


I don't know that they do, but if you have control of the machine, why would you not start a 2P game so you could experiment with the controls on your favorite character?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:09 pm 
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I remember playing at least one fighting game where there was a practice mode that not only let you whale on a NPC that just stood there, but also let you call up a menu listing all the combos.

I have no idea what it was though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
I remember playing at least one fighting game where there was a practice mode that not only let you whale on a NPC that just stood there, but also let you call up a menu listing all the combos.

I have no idea what it was though.


That's most of them from the Playstation era onward.


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