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 Post subject: 2017-03-05 Build-a-bear
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:09 pm 
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I like Tensy and Landon. Definitely think it's not going to be too long before they end up like a much better adjusted Dothyban though.


Last edited by JohnSmith on Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:31 pm 
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He clearly doesn't have to go with cybernetics, so it must be his choice to do so. But he only does it as its convenient rather than upgrading himself arbitrarily. Not sure what his deal is. We really don't see much solid cybernetics in the comic, between advances in biology, nanotechnology and equipment it seems redundant.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Is that a small smile? He's not too mad at the name.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Cyber-Bear is.. actually amused?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:59 am 
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0z79 wrote:
Cyber-Bear is.. actually amused?

Must be an upgrade.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I wonder how much of what he's sporting is armor and how much is cybernetics. I guess the headpiece is implanted and we know about his right arm, but no idea with the rest.
Also, I wonder about the reasoning. As others have said, obvious cybernetics are pretty uncommon, though we know pretty much everyone under Tagon's command is boosted up to their gills. It's interesting that their boosts are generally invisible, even among characters who probably wouldn't mind a bit of metal poking through, while the Builder-Bear goes full chrome.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Cifer wrote:
I wonder how much of what he's sporting is armor and how much is cybernetics. I guess the headpiece is implanted and we know about his right arm, but no idea with the rest.
Also, I wonder about the reasoning. As others have said, obvious cybernetics are pretty uncommon, though we know pretty much everyone under Tagon's command is boosted up to their gills. It's interesting that their boosts are generally invisible, even among characters who probably wouldn't mind a bit of metal poking through, while the Builder-Bear goes full chrome.

He already has a cybernetic arm, so no going back. Might as well make the best of it, and he's already used to weaponry being part of his body.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:59 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Cifer wrote:
I wonder how much of what he's sporting is armor and how much is cybernetics. I guess the headpiece is implanted and we know about his right arm, but no idea with the rest.
Also, I wonder about the reasoning. As others have said, obvious cybernetics are pretty uncommon, though we know pretty much everyone under Tagon's command is boosted up to their gills. It's interesting that their boosts are generally invisible, even among characters who probably wouldn't mind a bit of metal poking through, while the Builder-Bear goes full chrome.

He already has a cybernetic arm, so no going back. Might as well make the best of it, and he's already used to weaponry being part of his body.


He could certainly go back if he wanted to. This is a world where entire bodies can be grown to order. If he wanted a biological arm they could just grow him a new one and then swap it out. Probably wouldn't take more than a day of downtime since he's already healthy.

No, this is a lifestyle choice for him.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:49 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
No, this is a lifestyle choice for him.

Exactly. It's a fashion statement, it says "I'm dangerous".

As though a thousand kilos of Ursumari isn't already dangerous.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:15 am 
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One of the fun things about Schlock Mercenary is that Howard's not afraid or complacent in the design of his characters.

Sometimes they're tied in with the plot - like Tailor making the new uniforms with his name sewn into the seams (setting up for him being capable of surgery), or Thurl changing back to his own uniform while boarding Tagii to disable her.

Sometimes they creep up on you and are exposed quite unsubtly but also brilliantly - someone pointing out Karl's hair had grown back is a brilliant thing and when looking back you notice that Howard's been doing that for months and you've just been change blind.

Landon getting a cybernetic makeover is also a pretty interesting thing that's been progressing organically through battle/bomb damage, and I'm interested to know if it's going to become a minor plot point along with his love for Tenzy or just a change in visuals.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:16 am 
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The interesting thing here is the relationship between Landon and Tenzy. Landon keeps grafting cybernetic upgrades onto himself that Tenzy makes for him. In a way, Tensy is upgrading him after the big upgrade Landon gave her. (Is Tenzy a her? Pronouns for AI's are kind of problematic.) At some point, Landon will be more Tenzy than Landon.

It's sweet, and creepy.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:46 am 
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Quote:
(Is Tenzy a her? Pronouns for AI's are kind of problematic.)
Tenzy's a her - Schlock AIs have pretty much always been gendered. I remember at least two lines drawing attention to it, the first one being a introductory description of the fleetmind ("It is a he and his name is Petey") and the second being a grumbling Tagon and a worried Ennesby ("Petey, help! He's demoted me to an it!").


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Tenzy might have a gender, but has it actually been stated? I just assume female due to their relationship with Landon, and possibly some leftover WALL-E curved-robot vibes.

EDIT:
Did an archive dive, and we have canon. Tenzy is a she.
Postscript: I really hate bbcode urls...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Cifer wrote:
Schlock AIs have pretty much always been gendered.

It's really awkward to talk about un-gendered individuals in ordinary English. I tried writing a story about an AI with no intrinsic gender and rapidly concluded that my protagonist had taken a gender just to avoid communication problems.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Most English gendered identifiers default to male. Actor. Barber. Teamster. Tailor.
You do still occasionally hear of an ActRESS, but most now go by ActOR. You have probably never heard of a TeamstRESS. I don't think I can come up with a female version of BarbER, as beautician and hair stylist are gender neutral in construction. The closest to a female TailOR, that I know of, is Seamstress, which replaces the whole root to become an entirely different word.
Likewise, the whole of mankind is generally considered to include all the women.
Why not just apply male pronouns by default?

Unless it's the AI of a ship, of course. It's traditional to think of ships as female.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Mostly because the linguistic features are a quirk of history, which irritate a good portion of the population. There's no particular reason we should identify them all as male. It's not any more accurate, after all.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:15 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
Mostly because the linguistic features are a quirk of history, which irritate a good portion of the population.

Which is irrelevant.

Quote:
There's no particular reason we should identify them all as male. It's not any more accurate, after all.

They aren't being identified. Using the 'male' terms of address are gender neutral.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:26 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Which is irrelevant.

That it irritates people? Why is that irrelevant?
evileeyore wrote:
They aren't being identified. Using the 'male' terms of address are gender neutral.

But it's not gender neutral. It's just being used as default. That's not the end of the world, but it doesn't make it particularly justified, either.

In-comic, most AIs are all built with avatars and those avatars seem to determine the gender. Or put another way, the gender the AI presents is baked in while growing it. It seems reasonable to assume that Tenzy could have even chosen to be 'her' simply to complement Landon.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:10 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
That it irritates people? Why is that irrelevant?

For individual relationships, it isn't. For the mass of humanity, it pretty much is.

Give it another 50 years, it might change.

Quote:
In-comic, most AIs are all built with avatars and those avatars seem to determine the gender. Or put another way, the gender the AI presents is baked in while growing it. It seems reasonable to assume that Tenzy could have even chosen to be 'her' simply to complement Landon.

Of course. Which is beside the point to this digression of a digression.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Yup! That was me trying to haul us back on topic.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:22 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
No, this is a lifestyle choice for him.

Exactly. It's a fashion statement, it says "I'm dangerous".

As though a thousand kilos of Ursumari isn't already dangerous.


Hey now. Seven hundred and eighty.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:25 pm 
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ADB_ wrote:

Dramatic rounding isn't just for old Admirals.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:36 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
ADB_ wrote:

Dramatic rounding isn't just for old Admirals.

But only admirals aren't subject to challenge on it.

. . .

Actually, they are too, but only from superior ranks.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:19 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Quote:
There's no particular reason we should identify them all as male. It's not any more accurate, after all.

They aren't being identified. Using the 'male' terms of address are gender neutral.
I disagree - male-leaning nouns of the English language may be gender-neutral, but "he" is about as specific as it gets when we could be using either "they" (for non-specific) or "it" (for lacking a gender).

(Plus, it adds to the confusion rather than detracting from it when AIs with avatars like that of Athena, Lunesby, Tagioalisi and Cindy come into play.)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:49 pm 
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"They" is just as ambiguous, and technically less correct, than "he" for a gender-neutral person (I use it a lot as a gender-neutral singular but typically not on documents where I'll lose points for bad grammar). "It" is also technically incorrect, and most people object more strongly to being called an object (with the implied lack of inherent rights and privileges that an object has) than they object to being called the wrong gender.

However, this seems to be a hot-button issue for you, and this one is just as perfectly happy to refer to you as a "they" as he is to refer to you using the gender pronoun of your choice. Simply make clear which pronoun it is that you prefer, and this one can refer to you using that pronoun going forward.

If this one might make a suggestion, since obviously the masculine pronoun is associated with the historically more privileged and visibly powerful class of persons, one could simply grace every unknown entity with the assumption of masculinity.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:55 pm 
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"They" isn't ambiguous at all, though it is occasionally clumsy. It is even (mostly) gramatically correct. Certainly it works better than "this one" instead of "I."

As a complete aside, I've found I like how a few RPG manuals are handling the pronouns in their text. Instead of trying to use "they" (clumsy) or swapping pronouns every once and a while (confusing and distracting) they always refer to the GM as "she" and the player as "he," or the other way around.

It's actually helpful. You know who's being talked about even if you start in the middle of a paragraph, and remove some of the implicit assumption that females will never, ever play this game.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:24 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
"They" isn't ambiguous at all, though it is occasionally clumsy. It is even (mostly) gramatically correct. Certainly it works better than "this one" instead of "I."

As a complete aside, I've found I like how a few RPG manuals are handling the pronouns in their text. Instead of trying to use "they" (clumsy) or swapping pronouns every once and a while (confusing and distracting) they always refer to the GM as "she" and the player as "he," or the other way around.

It's actually helpful. You know who's being talked about even if you start in the middle of a paragraph, and remove some of the implicit assumption that females will never, ever play this game.


Our language would be better off to drop gendered pronouns, and instead go with numbered ones.
First actor, second actor, third actor, fourth actor, fifth actor.

Pri thought that Sec was talking to Ter, but Sec was really in communication with Qua, while Ter and Qui were in discussions.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:17 am 
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"they", as a generic pronoun, is apparently relatively old; the idea that "it must only be used for plural" is apparently less than 100 years old.

Of course, one could always use the formal third person singular address, "one", if one is really concerned about this. But that makes one sound stuffy, elite, "courtly", rather than like what one hears in the normal streets.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:11 am 
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keybounce wrote:
"they", as a generic pronoun, is apparently relatively old; the idea that "it must only be used for plural" is apparently less than 100 years old.

Of course, one could always use the formal third person singular address, "one", if one is really concerned about this. But that makes one sound stuffy, elite, "courtly", rather than like what one hears in the normal streets.

Not enough repetitions of the "F" word to be "street".

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Sean wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
"They" isn't ambiguous at all, though it is occasionally clumsy. It is even (mostly) gramatically correct. Certainly it works better than "this one" instead of "I."

As a complete aside, I've found I like how a few RPG manuals are handling the pronouns in their text. Instead of trying to use "they" (clumsy) or swapping pronouns every once and a while (confusing and distracting) they always refer to the GM as "she" and the player as "he," or the other way around.

It's actually helpful. You know who's being talked about even if you start in the middle of a paragraph, and remove some of the implicit assumption that females will never, ever play this game.


Our language would be better off to drop gendered pronouns, and instead go with numbered ones.
First actor, second actor, third actor, fourth actor, fifth actor.

Pri thought that Sec was talking to Ter, but Sec was really in communication with Qua, while Ter and Qui were in discussions.


I can't tell you the history of "they" as a singular pronoun, but I can tell you that my english professor this term was previously a professional editor and singular "they" is a pet peeve of his. Hence, I am avoiding the use of it for the season :angel:

In computing circles, where "One thought that Two was talking to Three, but Two was really...." would actually be appropriate, typically the abstract classes are instantiated like so: "Alice thought that Bob was talking to Charlie, but Bob was really..."

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