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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Heh. I'm happy to agree that it can't have been an annie-powered bomb - I've been arguing that doesn't make sense, after all. It just doesn't agree with a prior strip, which said that torpedos generally had an annie for both propulsion and payload.


I swear, this whole thing started because I was looking up the "We're being shot at by crazy people" strip, not because I planned to bring up this old argument. That was spur of the moment, and I kind of regret it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Is it a given that an annihilation plant is capable of flight on its own? We know that gravy guns need a focusing apparatus to get range, so it's reasonable to think that many uses of gravitic manipulation need additional equipment besides the annie plant.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Is it a given that an annihilation plant is capable of flight on its own? We know that gravy guns need a focusing apparatus to get range, so it's reasonable to think that many uses of gravitic manipulation need additional equipment besides the annie plant.

I would say at least special adaptations not needed for its role as a power source. (Navigational systems at a minimum.)

OTOH, how common/standard those adaptations are . . .

--FreeFlier


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 12:59 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
Heh. I'm happy to agree that it can't have been an annie-powered bomb - I've been arguing that doesn't make sense, after all. It just doesn't agree with a prior strip, which said that torpedos generally had an annie for both propulsion and payload.

emphisis mine.

there are situations where an annie plant powered weapon may not be the best to deploy. I don't know what they are but rarely is a single technology the best solution in every situation. a military organization as well funded as the toughs now are will naturally carry ordinance of a range of types and Taygon being knowledgeable in the traits of his weapons naturally picked up the appropriate warhead for the task.


FreeFlier wrote:
Nemoricus wrote:
Is it a given that an annihilation plant is capable of flight on its own? We know that gravy guns need a focusing apparatus to get range, so it's reasonable to think that many uses of gravitic manipulation need additional equipment besides the annie plant.

I would say at least special adaptations not needed for its role as a power source. (Navigational systems at a minimum.)

OTOH, how common/standard those adaptations are . . .

--FreeFlier

yeh but a torpedo has those adaptations, after all it is built to be self-propelled and uses its annie plant for propulsion.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:21 pm 
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thezombiekat wrote:
. . .
FreeFlier wrote:
Nemoricus wrote:
Is it a given that an annihilation plant is capable of flight on its own? We know that gravy guns need a focusing apparatus to get range, so it's reasonable to think that many uses of gravitic manipulation need additional equipment besides the annie plant.
I would say at least special adaptations not needed for its role as a power source. (Navigational systems at a minimum.)

OTOH, how common/standard those adaptations are . . .
yeh but a torpedo has those adaptations, after all it is built to be self-propelled and uses its annie plant for propulsion.

Oh, a torp or ship plant would have them, though they might not be inbuilt in the plant itself.

OTOH, why would an annie plant intended to be stationary be provided with the mobility systems? It's an extra layer of complexity and expense, so unless it allows for economies of scale because all annie plants are the same except for size . . .

--FreeFlier


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:58 am 
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FreeFlier wrote:
thezombiekat wrote:
. . .
FreeFlier wrote:
I would say at least special adaptations not needed for its role as a power source. (Navigational systems at a minimum.)

OTOH, how common/standard those adaptations are . . .
yeh but a torpedo has those adaptations, after all it is built to be self-propelled and uses its annie plant for propulsion.

Oh, a torp or ship plant would have them, though they might not be inbuilt in the plant itself.

OTOH, why would an annie plant intended to be stationary be provided with the mobility systems? It's an extra layer of complexity and expense, so unless it allows for economies of scale because all annie plants are the same except for size . . .

--FreeFlier

I would assume that annie plants intended not to provide thrust would lack the ability to provide thrust in a controlled manner you can't, for example, make your AP-130 (checked the number this time) fly under the power of its 3cm annie plant.

it may even be that the annie plant doesn't usually project gravity outside of itself instead, providing power to external gravity manipulation systems for generating thrust and weapons, this would allow a ship to operate for a short time with annies disabled (as battleplates can now) and still have some drives and weapons. or (more likely) a ship with multiple annie plants to continue operating effectively with one or more plants shut down you could go from full weapons and maneuverability to full weapons or maneuverability or some combination of both, if each annie plant contributed part of the drives and weapons you would be stuck at an even loss, not good when you decide it is time to run.

this also makes a lot of design sense in terms of modular design principles.

that said I thought we were discussing the annie plant on the missile Tagon carried to his doom.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:48 am 
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FreeFlier wrote:
I would say at least special adaptations not needed for its role as a power source. (Navigational systems at a minimum.)

OTOH, how common/standard those adaptations are . . .
thezombiekat wrote:
yeh but a torpedo has those adaptations, after all it is built to be self-propelled and uses its annie plant for propulsion.
FreeFlier wrote:
Oh, a torp or ship plant would have them, though they might not be inbuilt in the plant itself.

OTOH, why would an annie plant intended to be stationary be provided with the mobility systems? It's an extra layer of complexity and expense, so unless it allows for economies of scale because all annie plants are the same except for size . . .
thezombiekat wrote:
I would assume that annie plants intended not to provide thrust would lack the ability to provide thrust in a controlled manner you can't, for example, make your AP-130 (checked the number this time) fly under the power of its 3cm annie plant.

it may even be that the annie plant doesn't usually project gravity outside of itself instead, providing power to external gravity manipulation systems for generating thrust and weapons, this would allow a ship to operate for a short time with annies disabled (as battleplates can now) and still have some drives and weapons. or (more likely) a ship with multiple annie plants to continue operating effectively with one or more plants shut down you could go from full weapons and maneuverability to full weapons or maneuverability or some combination of both, if each annie plant contributed part of the drives and weapons you would be stuck at an even loss, not good when you decide it is time to run.

this also makes a lot of design sense in terms of modular design principles.

I suspect it would vary a lot . . . plants used mostly for self-propelled things might have the mobility functions built in (presuming that's not a major increase in size/weight) and turned off where not needed, whereas size/weight critical plants and those used mostly for non-mobile applications wouldn't.

It would depend on precisely where the economies of scale for building only one version in large quantities kicked in.

thezombiekat wrote:
that said I thought we were discussing the annie plant on the missile Tagon carried to his doom.

Topic drift. /shrug/

--FreeFlier


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Also, the missile Tagon carried to his doom probably didn't HAVE an Annie plant. It looked for all the world like a 'conventional' warhead rather than a conversion bomb.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:28 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Also, and I cent believe this has to be said again, but teraports aren't transporters. You can't remotely Teraport somebody, or Teraport only PART of them.

and I can't believe this has to be said again, but that's a largely academic argument. If you have teraport permission in an area, you can strap a teraport unit to a drone and send it into the other person's personal space, then immediately command it to teraport back out with a larger volume of space selected to go with it.

True enough, you can't do this if you don't have permission in that location in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:32 am 
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As for teraporting part of an individual - I can't make up my mind on that one.
On one hand, you consider Credomar's evacuation system. It took a whole city and sent it piece by piece.
But on the other hand, Pibald and his cutting charges did the actual separation.

I can't think of a reason you couldn't choose to design your teraport unit to only pull certain chunks of matter (and indeed, it randomly did for fuel, back at the start), but I can't think of a specific example where it was done exactly my way.
(Compare to Stargate, where they used a teleporter for brain surgery one time - pulling out the parasite while leaving the healthy brain. That's precision work.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Actually, if you read through the archives, it's actualyl painfully obvious Tagon is woefully unqualified commanding large ships, and there's a reason for that. He was an infantry Captain- His final rank was grade O-3, not a Naval Captain's O-6. O-3 is actually the grade of a Naval Lieutenant. Even assuming commanding the Kitesfear justified promoting him a level afterwards, he would still realistically be a Commander (O-4) not a Captain able to command large ships. Frankly, it shows. Quite simply, as far as I can tell, Tagon is de facto the only actual member of the Command Staff- he has no XO (I know Kevyn usualyl takes over when Tagon's away, but he's the engineer, not the XO) for a start.


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