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 Post subject: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Huh

Well we now know how big the Neosynchronicity is and it wouldn't surprise me if the maxim 39 is of a similar size.

The Breath Weapon is about the size of the Post Dated Check Loan's primary annie plant.

A new named ship class of Petey's design the Aggressor class.

And the Extortionator class is a lot smaller than I thought as I'm sure it was mentioned by Howard in the forums that it had a 10km annie but instead it looks a little over 2km so more accurately an annie with a volume of 10 times a Devastator classes 1km annie which explains why a physically larger battleplate did not want to fight it.

I also can't help but wonder why he didn't use a Ob'enn Cloak of Untrammeled Dignity segment as the background of the poster with all the other ships on top as that would work lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Can't help but think Tagon's getting shafted in the gravy department. The only thing smaller and cheaper his Dad could've got him is a gunboat, if that poster is to scale. I think the philosophy there is "Well son, we know you're going to break it anyway, so we're getting you something we can afford to replace. A lot."

Cloak of Untrammeled Dignity would be hard as a background because most of the ships seem to share that titanium-white paint scheme, and contrast would be poor. Besides, I don't see any Obenn ships on the poster, not even the PDCL.

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:54 pm 
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dire wrote:
Can't help but think Tagon's getting shafted in the gravy department. The only thing smaller and cheaper his Dad could've got him is a gunboat, if that poster is to scale. I think the philosophy there is "Well son, we know you're going to break it anyway, so we're getting you something we can afford to replace. A lot."

Cloak of Untrammeled Dignity would be hard as a background because most of the ships seem to share that titanium-white paint scheme, and contrast would be poor. Besides, I don't see any Obenn ships on the poster, not even the PDCL.



A Thunderhead Superfortress (PDCL) is there it's above the Chesapeake battleplate.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:47 pm 
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You are absolutely right, I just don't recall seeing many sideview shots of one before and I didn't recognize it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:48 pm 
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viewtopic.php?t=15087&start=24 Extortionator was classed at 10k, so possible retcon?


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Man, the Kitesfear was really a small-ass ship. The one they swiped from Pranger (Touch-and-Go?) had a forward Annie plant it's entire size.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:42 am 
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I'm siding with dire - this is taking the captain of a Supercarrier and giving him a two-person canoe for his replacement boat. Given that everybody seems to agree that the damage wasn't his fault it seems insulting.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:46 am 
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JohnSmith wrote:
I'm siding with dire - this is taking the captain of a Supercarrier and giving him a two-person canoe for his replacement boat. Given that everybody seems to agree that the damage wasn't his fault it seems insulting.


More like the anti Peter principal. Kaff Tagon has shown his strengths as a small force leader at heart. He had the Kitesfear for some time, according to the narrator, before he lost it, but he seems to run through big ships like water. Mostly accomplishing tasks that could have been done spending smaller ships, or at least couldn't have been done better with the larger ships he had.

It's not his fault, but he does So Well with small ships and forces, and they are cheaper to replace.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Man, the Kitesfear was really a small-ass ship. The one they swiped from Pranger (Touch-and-Go?) had a forward Annie plant it's entire size.



The touch and go's forward annie has a width equal to the length of the Kitesfear or Cynthetic Certainty but it's size and volume is much larger.

Though to be honest most races ships are tiny. Apart from the Oafa, UNS, Petey and those affiliated with him ( F'Sherl-Ganni and Ob'enn ) no one seems to have ships bigger than the touch and go.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:10 pm 
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ushio wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
Man, the Kitesfear was really a small-ass ship. The one they swiped from Pranger (Touch-and-Go?) had a forward Annie plant it's entire size.



The touch and go's forward annie has a width equal to the length of the Kitesfear or Cynthetic Certainty but it's size and volume is much larger.

Though to be honest most races ships are tiny. Apart from the Oafa, UNS, Petey and those affiliated with him ( F'Sherl-Ganni and Ob'enn ) no one seems to have ships bigger than the touch and go.

I thought all Annies are spherical?

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:53 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
I thought all Annies are spherical?

I think that's what he said. Same length as a ship, but the annie is larger because it's a sphere. He wasn't comparing differently shaped annie plants.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Sean wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
I'm siding with dire - this is taking the captain of a Supercarrier and giving him a two-person canoe for his replacement boat. Given that everybody seems to agree that the damage wasn't his fault it seems insulting.


More like the anti Peter principal. Kaff Tagon has shown his strengths as a small force leader at heart. He had the Kitesfear for some time, according to the narrator, before he lost it, but he seems to run through big ships like water. Mostly accomplishing tasks that could have been done spending smaller ships, or at least couldn't have been done better with the larger ships he had.

It's not his fault, but he does So Well with small ships and forces, and they are cheaper to replace.


I can't agree. Most of the failures have been no fault of Tagon's, aside from liking money (A necessary fault in a Mercenary commander). Many would not have been survivable in smaller ships.

Take Credomar. Even TAG couldn't contain the AM explosion. Best he could do was direct it. I can't imagine the Kitesfear would have been able to do even that much.
Osiri. The Touch and Go was totaled. Any smaller ship wouldn't have kept the crew alive.
Shufgar. The breacher that got through took a chunk the size of the Kitesfear out of the forward blade.
The Serial Peacemaker wasn't a large ship, and was stolen out from under him by the pilot.
PDCL was lost due to a crazy AI built by the psychobears. An issue of where the ship came from, not Tagon's ability to command such a ship.
The Kitesfear itself was destroyed by Total Conversion bombs which, in hindsight, were absurdly powerful compared to almost anything we've seen in-setting.

No, Tagon doesn't suffer from the Peter Principal, he suffers from Protagonist Syndrome.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:25 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
Sean wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
I'm siding with dire - this is taking the captain of a Supercarrier and giving him a two-person canoe for his replacement boat. Given that everybody seems to agree that the damage wasn't his fault it seems insulting.


More like the anti Peter principal. Kaff Tagon has shown his strengths as a small force leader at heart. He had the Kitesfear for some time, according to the narrator, before he lost it, but he seems to run through big ships like water. Mostly accomplishing tasks that could have been done spending smaller ships, or at least couldn't have been done better with the larger ships he had.

It's not his fault, but he does So Well with small ships and forces, and they are cheaper to replace.


I can't agree. Most of the failures have been no fault of Tagon's, aside from liking money (A necessary fault in a Mercenary commander). Many would not have been survivable in smaller ships.

Take Credomar. Even TAG couldn't contain the AM explosion. Best he could do was direct it. I can't imagine the Kitesfear would have been able to do even that much.
Osiri. The Touch and Go was totaled. Any smaller ship wouldn't have kept the crew alive.
Shufgar. The breacher that got through took a chunk the size of the Kitesfear out of the forward blade.
The Serial Peacemaker wasn't a large ship, and was stolen out from under him by the pilot.
PDCL was lost due to a crazy AI built by the psychobears. An issue of where the ship came from, not Tagon's ability to command such a ship.
The Kitesfear itself was destroyed by Total Conversion bombs which, in hindsight, were absurdly powerful compared to almost anything we've seen in-setting.

No, Tagon doesn't suffer from the Peter Principal, he suffers from Protagonist Syndrome.


Quote:
Take Credomar....
OK, commander convinced himself he was dealing mostly with unarmed, unarmored rabble, which is true. What he conveniently ignored were the giant, oversized annie plants in the stationwaist. As soon as he stopped spreading food around and started sending tanks, the opposition used those giant annie plants against him. He's lucky he didn't get his whole crew crushed into neutronium, which if there'd been a professional at the controls is probably what would have happened.
Quote:
Osiri...
Giant boobie trap. Tagon went in knowing he was out-gunned and Pi's "worst-case scenario" is exactly what happened. And then Oisri self-destructed. The only reason anybody survived is because Tagon has plot armor half a kilometer thick. There's no reason for Tagon to have ever assumed he would survive to spend the money for that contract.
Quote:
Shufgar...
Probably the smallest charlie foxtrot tagon had managed to his credit, which at least shows he was learning something, maybe. Still took serious damage and lost his boarding party, and the only reason they survived being taken captive was plot magic.
Quote:
Serial Peacemaker...
Probably the only ship where it genuinely isn't Tagon's fault that it got blown up, except for some reason he trusted a viral boy-band as the pilot, who then pirated the ship.
Quote:
PDCL...
Named the "post-dated check loan", as in "You'll have to pay this back pretty soon" because the AI was feeling humorously ironic? And equipped with a handy loyalty switch that would literally turn it into the slave of any psycho-bear who wandered into the right room? Tagon's best bet for keeping this monkey trap would have been to sail it into a scrap yard, part it out and then buy a real ship.
Quote:
Kitesfear...
Am now wondering why Luna didn't have giant shields like Dom Atlantis? Maybe they don't believe in shields, asteroid strikes or acts of terrorism? Anyway, hard to defend against that kind of sabotage. Except by maybe not pissing off The Lawyers (tm).

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:29 pm 
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dire wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
I can't agree. Most of the failures have been no fault of Tagon's, aside from liking money (A necessary fault in a Mercenary commander). Many would not have been survivable in smaller ships.

Take Credomar. Even TAG couldn't contain the AM explosion. Best he could do was direct it. I can't imagine the Kitesfear would have been able to do even that much.
Osiri. The Touch and Go was totaled. Any smaller ship wouldn't have kept the crew alive.
Shufgar. The breacher that got through took a chunk the size of the Kitesfear out of the forward blade.
The Serial Peacemaker wasn't a large ship, and was stolen out from under him by the pilot.
PDCL was lost due to a crazy AI built by the psychobears. An issue of where the ship came from, not Tagon's ability to command such a ship.
The Kitesfear itself was destroyed by Total Conversion bombs which, in hindsight, were absurdly powerful compared to almost anything we've seen in-setting.

No, Tagon doesn't suffer from the Peter Principal, he suffers from Protagonist Syndrome.


Quote:
Take Credomar....
OK, commander convinced himself he was dealing mostly with unarmed, unarmored rabble, which is true. What he conveniently ignored were the giant, oversized annie plants in the stationwaist. As soon as he stopped spreading food around and started sending tanks, the opposition used those giant annie plants against him. He's lucky he didn't get his whole crew crushed into neutronium, which if there'd been a professional at the controls is probably what would have happened.
Quote:
Osiri...
Giant boobie trap. Tagon went in knowing he was out-gunned and Pi's "worst-case scenario" is exactly what happened. And then Oisri self-destructed. The only reason anybody survived is because Tagon has plot armor half a kilometer thick. There's no reason for Tagon to have ever assumed he would survive to spend the money for that contract.
Quote:
Shufgar...
Probably the smallest charlie foxtrot tagon had managed to his credit, which at least shows he was learning something, maybe. Still took serious damage and lost his boarding party, and the only reason they survived being taken captive was plot magic.
Quote:
Serial Peacemaker...
Probably the only ship where it genuinely isn't Tagon's fault that it got blown up, except for some reason he trusted a viral boy-band as the pilot, who then pirated the ship.
Quote:
PDCL...
Named the "post-dated check loan", as in "You'll have to pay this back pretty soon" because the AI was feeling humorously ironic? And equipped with a handy loyalty switch that would literally turn it into the slave of any psycho-bear who wandered into the right room? Tagon's best bet for keeping this monkey trap would have been to sail it into a scrap yard, part it out and then buy a real ship.
Quote:
Kitesfear...
Am now wondering why Luna didn't have giant shields like Dom Atlantis? Maybe they don't believe in shields, asteroid strikes or acts of terrorism? Anyway, hard to defend against that kind of sabotage. Except by maybe not pissing off The Lawyers (tm).



You're arguing "Tagon is stupid and takes makes bad plans" which isn't my point (and an argument of its own). My point is "Smaller ships don't make Tagon any more likely to survive and be successful." For people who presumably love and want Tagon alive, giving him a small ship seems both insulting and a poor idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:43 pm 
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I don't know. I think Tagon usually gets himself into a situation where if he -had- backup that was two or three times the weight of fire of his opening force, he'd be OK. The problem then is, he generally commits his whole force up front. He's only got a handful of grunts for light, unarmored/improvised stuff, and one ship to back them up. If the grunts can't handle the groundwork, or the ship can't handle the shipwork, his backup plan is something like "ask the shipboard AI for help," which has never, ever turned out well to date and drove at least one AI insane.

If he commits the smallest force in the armada up front, and then he has a whole lot of ships in reserve that he can call for help, he'll probably wind up going through many fewer clones than if he had a really big ship and had to call in smaller ships for help when things got sticky. He's also likely to tackle smaller contracts to begin with since his assets are "one small blockade cruiser that could fit inside and rattle around in the annie plant of a real ship."

Then too, there's the angle that the mercenaries already have all of the money. They don't need to do a cycle of building up a fleet by taking high-risk contracts. They can focus on what's fun and what they're good at, which for Tagon is probably commanding one dragon class cruiser and its marines.

In a lot of ways, bagging the PDCL harmed Tagon more than it helped him, because it gave him the reputation of being a big-ship merc, but his actual expertise and qualifications were on a ship that could fit inside one of the PDCL's hangars. He never learned to hang back and be cautious with his big ships, because he kept flying them like they were a vanguard cruiser, and then losing them as though they were vanguard cruisers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:59 pm 
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As Tagon himself pointed out he's not qualified to be a commodore. He just doesn't have the ship handling and command experience. And a lot of those bigger ships he had would probably be the flagships of a commodore at least in any actual Navy. Possibly even an Admiral depending on the size of the ship compared to the size of the navy.

Tagon can effectively live forever now, as can everyone else in the company including his father and current commander. Quite possibly Tagon Sr. has decided to start where Tagon actually has the skills and gradually work him up through the ships to gain the necessary experience over the next few years/decades.

Tagon himself did not seem to be angry or even annoyed at the size of the Cynthetic Certainty, and certainly he knows full well what its capabilities are compared to his previous commands. I mean if nothing else he's probably personally rich enough to buy a larger ship if he wanted to. It probably wouldn't even seriously strain his budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:10 pm 
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I mean, you've got a point dire. But like I said, a lot of the loses seem driven by the running plot and not Tagon's particular poor choices. SPM died by theft, and had its terraport used as a weapon. Size irrelevant. TAG was destroyed because of the foxtrot in Credomar - a mission that was supposed to be a complete milk run with no need for a large ship, just a couple ground troops. TAGII died because her AI engineer was over-ambitious with the AI design and/or because she was a spy. Ship size did not factor in, except for keeping them alive when the crazy-AI charged a battleplate. Neosyncrosity died because they decided shooting the NUSPI twice was worth more than the ship itself (if that's not a Maxim, it should be). Tagon wasn't even involved in that decision. Their gunboat - smaller than Kitesfear! - was lost because they got a job oversized to not just their ship, but any ship. The near-loss of the Broken Wind was... well, it was caused by an Idiot Ball the size of the CN-tower. The Broken Wind being a larger ship SHOULD have saved it, as the larger ships have always been able to gravy their own decks to repel borders. Hell, their AI had earlier in that same arc had been using the gravitics to deflect bullets. "I almost hope we have to repel borders someday" Tagon said, then apparently immediately went and disabled the defenses he had just praised.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Let's agree to disagree on Credomar. My personal opinion is that Tagon screwed up a number of times on both strategic and tactical levels going into that op. That's one of those cases where his backup plan was to ask the shipboard AI for help, and the request basically drove Tag insane.

Neosynch died because the team on board correctly decided that the Dom Atlantis annie plants were more strategically important than the Neosynch, and the human government should probably have reimbursed them for the (very, very) expensive ship on account of it saving their seat of government. That wasn't even Tagon's ship, though, that was the maraca's ship.

Remind me what their gunship was called? Was that the Serial Peacemaker?

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:45 pm 
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I absolutely agree Tagon didn't plan Credomar appropriately.

The gunship was Bristlecone.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:16 pm 
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The NUPSI double-shot is one of the maxiums.

They fired on their own position in order to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:00 am 
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The Kitesfears loss to a total conversion bomb was COMPLETELY overkill. It was a seven *teraton* rating *per bomb* and there were *several* of them. We 'heard' them 'conversing' just before their timers ticked down.

The loss of the Hellavator was an absolute certainty. The sterilization of the nearer sides of both Earth and Luna only slightly less so.

Teraton-level events are what you have Battleplates for. To *prevent*. We've yet to see any sort of explosion or other energetic event of that level be contained or even deflected, so far as I can recall.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:36 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
The Kitesfears loss to a total conversion bomb was COMPLETELY overkill. It was a seven *teraton* rating *per bomb* and there were *several* of them. We 'heard' them 'conversing' just before their timers ticked down.

The loss of the Hellavator was an absolute certainty. The sterilization of the nearer sides of both Earth and Luna only slightly less so.

Teraton-level events are what you have Battleplates for. To *prevent*. We've yet to see any sort of explosion or other energetic event of that level be contained or even deflected, so far as I can recall.

Howard's treatment of those bombs effects were plenty realistic, but I don't know if he'll even be able to justify their actual existence. How much antimatter would even do that?


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:18 am 
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I'm just going to point out that offense and defense strategies evolve fast in this universe. The toughs started out with little more than durable cloth uniforms, switched to walking tanks, with hard shells, then worked their way to "low profile armor", which looks like clothing and probably protects better than the armor they were wearing on Luna.
Also, remember how Schlock was disappointed to find his favorite gun had been discontinued, and he was offered this tiny thing, (which we later find out is AWESOME,) which he rejected because it lacked the onimous hummm and barrel glow of death.

It is entirely plausible that, after the hellavator bombing, the planets in the Terrasphere upgraded their defenses to include very powerful unifield shields for their cities.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:29 am 
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Sean wrote:
Also, remember how Schlock was disappointed to find his favorite gun had been discontinued, and he was offered this tiny thing, (which we later find out is AWESOME,) which he rejected because it lacked the onimous hummm and barrel glow of death.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:52 am 
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Sean wrote:
I'm just going to point out that offense and defense strategies evolve fast in this universe. The toughs started out with little more than durable cloth uniforms, switched to walking tanks, with hard shells, then worked their way to "low profile armor", which looks like clothing and probably protects better than the armor they were wearing on Luna.
Also, remember how Schlock was disappointed to find his favorite gun had been discontinued, and he was offered this tiny thing, (which we later find out is AWESOME,) which he rejected because it lacked the onimous hummm and barrel glow of death.

It is entirely plausible that, after the hellavator bombing, the planets in the Terrasphere upgraded their defenses to include very powerful unifield shields for their cities.


Just protecting the cities wouldn't have saved the planet from that, though. The nearer sides of Terra and Luna would have been seared by energy, probably boiling the oceans away. All you'd achieve by protecting only the cities is a bunch of cities in bottles that nobody can get in or out of without turning off TADs or using Teraport cages, (neither of which existed at the time) and that are rapidly using up their fuel keeping the superheated gas, radiation, and just plain *heat* out.

If Kevyn hadn't had the Teraport drive on the Kitesfear, the Attorney Collective would have effectively destroyed two entire worlds and, if i recall, something along the lines of thirty billion people to take out one ship. It's no wonder the Toughs got a court contract to collect a 'pound of flesh' as it were, even if they couldn't be conclusively linked to it...which I seem to recall they were? But it's been a while since my last archive dive.

Edit: also, RE the total conversion bombs existing; they're probably the 3090s version of nuclear weapons. When you have power plants that can put out enough power to crack a small moon, your definition of 'weapon of mass destruction' gets a little bit....skewed.

The main reason that antimatter is so seldom used, I think, is because it's so hard to tune just the right amount you need. And it's hard to keep it inert because it is inherently...uh...ert. What's the un-negativized version of inert anyway? Whatever, point is, it's hard to tune your payload, it's hard to keep from reacting until you want it to go off...but if you want something that'll just plain go off BIG, there's no more energetic a substance.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:56 am 
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I think the TCBs were just early installment weirdness. I'm not judging Howard for that, it's almost universal in long-running series of all kinds.


As far as using antimatter in your warheads...
"Waaaagh! We're being shot at by CRAZY PEOPLE!"

EDIT: Wait, if torpedoes traditionally use the annie for both power and warhead... damnit, that's another reason that the Broken Wind suicide mission is ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:14 am 
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ExenTrik wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
The Kitesfears loss to a total conversion bomb was COMPLETELY overkill. It was a seven *teraton* rating *per bomb* and there were *several* of them. We 'heard' them 'conversing' just before their timers ticked down.

The loss of the Hellavator was an absolute certainty. The sterilization of the nearer sides of both Earth and Luna only slightly less so.

Teraton-level events are what you have Battleplates for. To *prevent*. We've yet to see any sort of explosion or other energetic event of that level be contained or even deflected, so far as I can recall.

Howard's treatment of those bombs effects were plenty realistic, but I don't know if he'll even be able to justify their actual existence. How much antimatter would even do that?

1 gram of total conversion is roughly 21 kilotonnes (metric tonne equivalents of TNT).
Since each gram of antimatter mutually annihilates a gram of matter you double that. (This assumes none of the energy is "wasted" in non-blast effects like high energy neutrinoes that leave the area. But I'm going to assume that with the rest of the setting tech a bomb can be made fairly "efficient".)
1 kg of antimatter ~= 42 megatonnes
1 tonne of antimatter ~= 42 gigatonnes
So
23.8 tonnes of antimatter ~= 1 teratonne of blast.

Note that a bomb needs to contain both the matter and antimatter to make a decent blast, so you're looking at a minimum of a 47 ton bomb.
The USA recently dropped a nearly ten tonne bomb (comparable in mass to the WW2 era grand slam). The Soviet test of the "Tzar bomb" involved dropping a 27 tonne bomb.

So no one in our world has ever built and delivered a bomb that was as physically heavy as this thing would need to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Doug Lampert wrote:
ExenTrik wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
The Kitesfears loss to a total conversion bomb was COMPLETELY overkill. It was a seven *teraton* rating *per bomb* and there were *several* of them. We 'heard' them 'conversing' just before their timers ticked down.

The loss of the Hellavator was an absolute certainty. The sterilization of the nearer sides of both Earth and Luna only slightly less so.

Teraton-level events are what you have Battleplates for. To *prevent*. We've yet to see any sort of explosion or other energetic event of that level be contained or even deflected, so far as I can recall.

Howard's treatment of those bombs effects were plenty realistic, but I don't know if he'll even be able to justify their actual existence. How much antimatter would even do that?

1 gram of total conversion is roughly 21 kilotonnes (metric tonne equivalents of TNT).
Since each gram of antimatter mutually annihilates a gram of matter you double that. (This assumes none of the energy is "wasted" in non-blast effects like high energy neutrinoes that leave the area. But I'm going to assume that with the rest of the setting tech a bomb can be made fairly "efficient".)
1 kg of antimatter ~= 42 megatonnes
1 tonne of antimatter ~= 42 gigatonnes
So
23.8 tonnes of antimatter ~= 1 teratonne of blast.

Note that a bomb needs to contain both the matter and antimatter to make a decent blast, so you're looking at a minimum of a 47 ton bomb.
The USA recently dropped a nearly ten tonne bomb (comparable in mass to the WW2 era grand slam). The Soviet test of the "Tzar bomb" involved dropping a 27 tonne bomb.

So no one in our world has ever built and delivered a bomb that was as physically heavy as this thing would need to be.


If you can solve the efficiency problem, you only need 23.8 tons of antimatter, and enough matter to contain it, and direct it into a similarly massed object, such as whatever it's attached to.
Also, there were three bombs, so each limpet could be as small as about 8 tons apiece, (allowing for about four hundred pounds worth of gravatic containment, aiming, and logic.)
so long as they went off together, and coordinated their blasts, so as to, "call their shots", so to speak, that is to not hose the same volume of matter with two streams of antimatter, they could produce the full output between them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:43 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
I think the TCBs were just early installment weirdness. I'm not judging Howard for that, it's almost universal in long-running series of all kinds.


As far as using antimatter in your warheads...
"Waaaagh! We're being shot at by CRAZY PEOPLE!"

EDIT: Wait, if torpedoes traditionally use the annie for both power and warhead... damnit, that's another reason that the Broken Wind suicide mission is ridiculous.


Not really. An engine doesn't inherently have the ability to move. A battery doesn't automatically have the ability to emit light, or make a phone call. It has to be attached to the thing that actually DOES STUFF.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship sizes.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Read the strip. "For propulsion and payload." And generating gravity is explicitly both how the annies work (crush matter to neutronium) and move (perpetual falling in the direction you want to go.) If the warheads are effectively total conversion of your annie to energy... your annie has to be on. Broken Wind asked for more time to warbuck the torpedo annies than Tagon thought they had left.


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