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 Post subject: 2017-05-12: Die of Shame
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:13 pm 
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...wait, only "most"?

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Probably the successful ones.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:31 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
...wait, only "most"?

There were some old groups on Earth that were into charging into battle naked or nearly naked.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Maybe Peri is finally realising they're the weak link here.

Pretty much everyone else in the company is a-ok with taking way worse damage (and has in the past), and many of them wouldn't even fall down with two to the chest.

Poor, unboosted Peri.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:48 pm 
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To be fair Peri is from Sanctum Adroit. The Adroit mercenaries probably weren't boosted to that level, it being illegal and them being essentially cops.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:12 pm 
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I feel like "essentially cops" is the real downfall. They were all about being heroes and throwing yourself on the grenade. The toughs were much more about vast overkill, living to spend your pay, and throwing the enemy on a grenade.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:15 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
I feel like "essentially cops" is the real downfall. They were all about being heroes and throwing yourself on the grenade. The toughs were much more about vast overkill, living to spend your pay, and throwing the enemy on a grenade.


The ones that aren't tend to be buried under eye trees, or get larger than life statues of themselves set up beside inert annie plants.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Sean wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
I feel like "essentially cops" is the real downfall. They were all about being heroes and throwing yourself on the grenade. The toughs were much more about vast overkill, living to spend your pay, and throwing the enemy on a grenade.


The ones that aren't tend to be buried under eye trees, or get larger than life statues of themselves set up beside inert annie plants.


"OR" does not apply to that statement.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:34 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
I feel like "essentially cops" is the real downfall.


Yeah, it's not like tey were real cops, you know, the ex-military, boosted, licensed, and very very seasoned kind.

Or even the kind that are used to wearing much better gear then Para's powered armorweave. Oh, wait, those were Sanctum Adroit.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:11 pm 
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ChowGuy wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
I feel like "essentially cops" is the real downfall.


Yeah, it's not like tey were real cops, you know, the ex-military, boosted, licensed, and very very seasoned kind.

Or even the kind that are used to wearing much better gear then Para's powered armorweave. Oh, wait, those were Sanctum Adroit.


It's not a matter of gear, but mentality. Cops are trained to not kill people. You'll note that in the Haven Hive incident Murtagh didn't even entertain the possibility of killing anyone, and went to great lengths to actually save her prisoners. Because cops are supposed to protect their charges. And if they have to get hurt doing so it's a sacrifice they're willing to make.

The Toughs on the hand are trained to kill their enemies through any means possible preferably while taking as little damage as possible. See Tagon and his multitude of hidden weaponry.

Although I will note that I'm pretty sure the reason the Tough's boosts are illegal is because it goes past what the regular cops or even soldiers outside of special forces get. And while Sanctum Adroit's gear is great the whole point of this is that Peri is not wearing his gear.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:34 pm 
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I'm not even sure there IS a gear difference - the 'much better gear' was a full exosuit, which the toughs definitely have, versus what has been referred to as 'carbonan underwear' operated by the least combat capable person on the Tough's roster.

But yes, the mental aspects are what I was thinking about. Peri took "anybody who's anywhere near ready to deploy, get into the field" as "get out on the field no matter what." No mercenary would do that, because they might die. A cop might though, because if they don't somebody ELSE might die.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:12 am 
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Just got to say that I really like the dialogue in this strip. Every line feels like a punchline.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:25 am 
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No mention that telling the medic that has Orange/Blue morality that you should "be forced to survive in order to always remember this humiliation" is not a smart move?


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:07 am 
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DrCron wrote:
No mention that telling the medic that has Orange/Blue morality that you should "be forced to survive in order to always remember this humiliation" is not a smart move?

Even she can relate to the biological imperative of not dying, I think.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:37 am 
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Holy crap this thread tied with the other for post time.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:39 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
DrCron wrote:
No mention that telling the medic that has Orange/Blue morality that you should "be forced to survive in order to always remember this humiliation" is not a smart move?

Even she can relate to the biological imperative of not dying, I think.


I was thinking more along the lines of having your brain rewired and biology altered so you couldn't die, and all you could ever think of was the humiliation of that moment.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:13 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Holy crap this thread tied with the other for post time.

Yup. Very timely of you two.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:18 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Holy crap this thread tied with the other for post time.

Yup. Very timely of you two.

Shucks--we do our best. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Black Sheep wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Holy crap this thread tied with the other for post time.

Yup. Very timely of you two.

Shucks--we do our best. :)

I feel like I'm forgetting something though...

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:30 pm 
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So "I can do that, but it costs extra"? What can she do?

"I should be forced to survive, that I might always remember ..."

"I should be forced to survive".

Do you think that this bug can give him immortality? She's a mecha-bug. Probably has massive nanotech inside her. Probably can put some nanotech in others.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:27 am 
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keybounce wrote:
What can she do?

likely perform the surgery in such a way that Peri does not forget a moment of it.

Anesthetics often cause short term memory loss... so this is going to hurt a bit.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:03 am 
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keybounce wrote:
So "I can do that, but it costs extra"? What can she do?

"I should be forced to survive, that I might always remember ..."

"I should be forced to survive".

Do you think that this bug can give him immortality? She's a mecha-bug. Probably has massive nanotech inside her. Probably can put some nanotech in others.

As far as her technology goes, it probably doesn't involve creating nanotech swarms, although it seems to operate on that level of detail. I also wonder if that sort of interaction would be against their instincts. Use of the toughs existing medical nanotech is more likely a gray area there as well.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:25 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
As far as her technology goes, it probably doesn't involve creating nanotech swarms, although it seems to operate on that level of detail. I also wonder if that sort of interaction would be against their instincts. Use of the toughs existing medical nanotech is more likely a gray area there as well.

You're confusing her for her distant cousins.

Remember she's not one of the ones that considered certain technologies blasphemy, though we don't know what her religion is. She might worship at the All Mighty Micro Altar of nanotech.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:02 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
ExenTrik wrote:
As far as her technology goes, it probably doesn't involve creating nanotech swarms, although it seems to operate on that level of detail. I also wonder if that sort of interaction would be against their instincts. Use of the toughs existing medical nanotech is more likely a gray area there as well.

You're confusing her for her distant cousins.

Remember she's not one of the ones that considered certain technologies blasphemy, though we don't know what her religion is. She might worship at the All Mighty Micro Altar of nanotech.

She probably follows the religion of "avoid causing a grey goo extinction event" if she's a trusted field surgeon.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:32 pm 
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[quote="grahamf"
She probably follows the religion of "avoid causing a grey goo extinction event" if she's a trusted field surgeon.[/quote]
Any sophont that enjoys continued existence as an individual not being consumed by The Grey Goo probably does.

All we know for sure is that she isn't an adherent of the Immaculate Surgery philosophy.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:51 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
She probably follows the religion of "avoid causing a grey goo extinction event" if she's a trusted field surgeon.

Any sophont that enjoys continued existence as an individual not being consumed by The Grey Goo probably does.

All we know for sure is that she isn't an adherent of the Immaculate Surgery philosophy.


Grey goo gets a bad rap, but Earth would be just another lifeless world, if a mutable, reproducing, hegemonic swarm didn't pop up once and ultimately cover it, to a depth of several inches in most places.
Thinking grey goo would be the end of life is like thinking a given strain of flu will be the end of western civilization.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Grey goo doesn't permit altered states of itself.

A reproducing cell, especially one that is barely able to reproduce, and does so with lots of errors, will make variations that we call life.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 2:20 pm 
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keybounce wrote:
Grey goo doesn't permit altered states of itself.

A reproducing cell, especially one that is barely able to reproduce, and does so with lots of errors, will make variations that we call life.

Is grey goo magic? If not then how does it know if the next nano-over is running the same hardware and software to not permit altered states of itself?

A nanomachine would necessarily be a fairly simple device, detection and sensor gear that's any good is probably beyond any single nano-machine. If your nano-machines are networked it becomes plausible for the gestalt to be intelligent and to be fairly good at spotting stuff on a large scale, but then detecting and acting on the level of individual nano-machines becomes difficult.

So the nano-swarm is either a bunch of little dumb machines, not capable of discriminating whether another nano is "different" reliably, and thus not capable of imposing uniform design; or it's one giant smart machine, not really capable of detecting and acting on single nanos fast enough to matter. Either way, it can't really enforce uniformity of design.

Heck, could a grey goo nano-machine set even spot a grey cancer that looked like nano of the swarm in almost all respects, and out-reproduced it by making use of all these convenient packages of EXACTLY the needed components that are all over the place around it. Or if there is some sort of "identify not-us nano" could grey goo be made to disassemble itself en-mass by simply broadcasting the "disassemble that, it's not-us" signal really loudly in the area.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Doug Lampert wrote:
keybounce wrote:
Grey goo doesn't permit altered states of itself.

A reproducing cell, especially one that is barely able to reproduce, and does so with lots of errors, will make variations that we call life.

Is grey goo magic? If not then how does it know if the next nano-over is running the same hardware and software to not permit altered states of itself?

A nanomachine would necessarily be a fairly simple device, detection and sensor gear that's any good is probably beyond any single nano-machine. If your nano-machines are networked it becomes plausible for the gestalt to be intelligent and to be fairly good at spotting stuff on a large scale, but then detecting and acting on the level of individual nano-machines becomes difficult.

So the nano-swarm is either a bunch of little dumb machines, not capable of discriminating whether another nano is "different" reliably, and thus not capable of imposing uniform design; or it's one giant smart machine, not really capable of detecting and acting on single nanos fast enough to matter. Either way, it can't really enforce uniformity of design.

Heck, could a grey goo nano-machine set even spot a grey cancer that looked like nano of the swarm in almost all respects, and out-reproduced it by making use of all these convenient packages of EXACTLY the needed components that are all over the place around it. Or if there is some sort of "identify not-us nano" could grey goo be made to disassemble itself en-mass by simply broadcasting the "disassemble that, it's not-us" signal really loudly in the area.

Simple, a proper error correction sequence. We only have a half-hearted one, but one engineered from the start would be flawless and allow for zero mistakes.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:04 pm 
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A cell is a "circuit" in the same way that a pile of parts is a computing machine.

Cells are basically full of things that say "Print this part when this section of code is active", plus other things to control what gets active when. (*)

That's not quite the same as "Run this nano-machine code when this section is active". That's state machine programming.

A change to the genes may result in a different 3d printed part. It may be close enough to the original to still work, or it may be so different that it's just in search of some way to be used.

Code is not the same as a 3d printed part. Change the code a little, and you change a lot more than a part.

If you had a mechanical cell, based on robotic principles instead of carbon-chain indirect molecule assembly, and it was somehow flexible enough to permit alterations from copy to copy, you'd have the Esspererians.

(did I get that spelling right? Pereri ring, with the Ess- and the -ans?)

(*): OK, plus stuff to make sure that the factory control bits can be copied without being run ...

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