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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Is the sysadmin the type who will give the newbie a free upgrade just to see what he can do with some proper thinking gear? He definitely should, and then continue the briefing on why the newbie is currently the proud owner of a muckworm.

Tomorrow's comic: Meanwhile, at the galactic core Urtheep facilities...

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Newbie's certainly clever enough. Might as well put him to work on some basic tasks and see what he can handle.

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:46 pm 
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dire wrote:
He definitely should, and then continue the briefing on why the newbie is currently the proud owner of a muckworm.


a domestic muckworm. As opposed to one those unsavory feral kind.

Although Schlock would probably consider them bot "comfort food."


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:22 am 
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grahamf wrote:
Newbie's certainly clever enough. Might as well put him to work on some basic tasks and see what he can handle.

Putzho needs to be immediately promoted to his level of incompetence.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:47 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Newbie's certainly clever enough. Might as well put him to work on some basic tasks and see what he can handle.

Putzho needs to be immediately promoted to his level of incompetence.


How is he incompetent anyway? Besides by getting shot down in the first place, I mean. Even than, he'd have to be a straight-up ninja with a telepathic link to his crew, and even then they might not have been quicker than the Matrioshka brain's AI.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:58 pm 
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No, EE was calling out the Peter Principle, that a competent manager tends to get promoted until they are no longer competent at their position, and then, rather than being demoted to a job they are good at, they stay at that level of incompetence.

In this case he seems to be implying that at some point, if Putzho is given enough upgrades quickly enough, there will come a point at which the increased capabilities of the hardware actually start degrading the newbie's performance -- or more likely, there's a point at which he's not going to utilize the new hardware effectively, and at some point there'll be diminishing returns to throwing more hardware at his persona.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:29 pm 
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dire wrote:
No, EE was calling out the Peter Principle, that a competent manager tends to get promoted until they are no longer competent at their position, and then, rather than being demoted to a job they are good at, they stay at that level of incompetence.

In this case he seems to be implying that at some point, if Putzho is given enough upgrades quickly enough, there will come a point at which the increased capabilities of the hardware actually start degrading the newbie's performance -- or more likely, there's a point at which he's not going to utilize the new hardware effectively, and at some point there'll be diminishing returns to throwing more hardware at his persona.

Also I just like saying "Promote them to their level of incompetence!" and watching people who don't immediately understand what I'm referring to try to figure out if I'm spouting nonsense or if there's some deeper meaning they just aren't getting.

It's a quirk.


But also I'd like to see Putzho get his mind into some serious hardware and see if he can't think circles around our Sysadmin/God.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:39 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
dire wrote:
No, EE was calling out the Peter Principle, that a competent manager tends to get promoted until they are no longer competent at their position, and then, rather than being demoted to a job they are good at, they stay at that level of incompetence.

In this case he seems to be implying that at some point, if Putzho is given enough upgrades quickly enough, there will come a point at which the increased capabilities of the hardware actually start degrading the newbie's performance -- or more likely, there's a point at which he's not going to utilize the new hardware effectively, and at some point there'll be diminishing returns to throwing more hardware at his persona.

Also I just like saying "Promote them to their level of incompetence!" and watching people who don't immediately understand what I'm referring to try to figure out if I'm spouting nonsense or if there's some deeper meaning they just aren't getting.

It's a quirk.


But also I'd like to see Putzho get his mind into some serious hardware and see if he can't think circles around our Sysadmin/God.


Honestly I doubt it. Nothing he's said has been something not covered by anyone who's thought philosophically about the implications of simulations and running virtual minds, including a lot of us here. He's certainly put some thought into this himself, but nothing I think out of the ordinary. And nothing that would put him beyond a sysadmin who's likely spent at least thousands and possibly millions of subjective years considering the subject.

Edit: That's not to say he couldn't think on the same level as the syadmin given comparable processing power. But so could anyone. From what we've seen of AI and biological minds there is a small level of variance on a certain amount of hardware capacity, but mostly the smarts and planning ability ability of a person depends on how much computing power they have. Given more computing they simply get smarter, as most clearly demonstrated by Ennesby and Petey.

If Putzho were given the same amount of hardware as the sysadmin he would be able to think on the same level, but he wouldn't have the same level of experience in what those capabilities allowed him to do.


Last edited by Arcanestomper on Thu May 18, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:44 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
dire wrote:
No, EE was calling out the Peter Principle, that a competent manager tends to get promoted until they are no longer competent at their position, and then, rather than being demoted to a job they are good at, they stay at that level of incompetence.

In this case he seems to be implying that at some point, if Putzho is given enough upgrades quickly enough, there will come a point at which the increased capabilities of the hardware actually start degrading the newbie's performance -- or more likely, there's a point at which he's not going to utilize the new hardware effectively, and at some point there'll be diminishing returns to throwing more hardware at his persona.
Also I just like saying "Promote them to their level of incompetence!" and watching people who don't immediately understand what I'm referring to try to figure out if I'm spouting nonsense or if there's some deeper meaning they just aren't getting. . . .

After twenty years in industry, I got it immediately.

Don't get me started on Masters of Business Assassination. I swear the first step is a lobotomy.

evileeyore wrote:
. . . But also I'd like to see Putzho get his mind into some serious hardware and see if he can't think circles around our Sysadmin/God.

I started to say that wasn't likely because he wouldn't know the capabilities of the hardware, but then I realized he also wouldn't know the limitations, so he might find a capability that all the native users knew wouldn't work . . .

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:15 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Nothing he's said has been something not covered by anyone who's thought philosophically about the implications of simulations and running virtual minds, including a lot of us here. He's certainly put some thought into this himself, but nothing I think out of the ordinary.

He's got a questioning mind, is thinking about things that are out of the ordinary for most people, and is grasping the implications quickly.

According to the Sysadmin, he's already at the edge of what his current hardware should be capable of. This says that he has the personality to give any hardware he's run on a right proper work out.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:36 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Edit: That's not to say he couldn't think on the same level as the syadmin given comparable processing power. But so could anyone. From what we've seen of AI and biological minds there is a small level of variance on a certain amount of hardware capacity, but mostly the smarts and planning ability ability of a person depends on how much computing power they have. Given more computing they simply get smarter, as most clearly demonstrated by Ennesby and Petey.
That's not quite the case - Tag and Tagii were for example noted to be master tacticians on a scale far beyond their nominal H/V level (Maury noted she would have been a formidable opponent if she had a proper chassis to threaten him with and I assume battleplates would be rather high in the intelligence department - plus, she killed him even with the chassis she had).


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:47 am 
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Cifer wrote:
That's not quite the case - Tag and Tagii were for example noted to be master tacticians on a scale far beyond their nominal H/V level (Maury noted she would have been a formidable opponent if she had a proper chassis to threaten him with and I assume battleplates would be rather high in the intelligence department - plus, she killed him even with the chassis she had).

Maury was also hobbled. His thinking was either reduced arbitrarily or he lacked the capacity to act and respond without direct human orders. He may also simply not have had a personality capable of thinking outside the box.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Ohh ...

Normal AI's cannot hardware swap.
The vanilla helix's only recommendation is that it can be upgraded with newer hardware without losing memories.

But now ... we have someone that is pushing the limits of this hardware, and possibly getting a new hardware upgrade.

So: Are we looking at a newer, improved version of the vanilla hardware, or do we have something that breaks the rules of what AI can do? Given a sufficiently advanced technology of AI, what "magic" can they do?

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:25 pm 
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We're looking at something that has had at least one full cycle of galactic civilization to develop its technology. It would be rather odd if they didn't play by completely different rules.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Cifer wrote:
We're looking at something that has had at least one full cycle of galactic civilization to develop its technology. It would be rather odd if they didn't play by completely different rules.

Either that, or brains are all mostly similar enough that the right hardware can virtualization them all with minimal modifications.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:06 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Cifer wrote:
We're looking at something that has had at least one full cycle of galactic civilization to develop its technology. It would be rather odd if they didn't play by completely different rules.
Either that, or brains are all mostly similar enough that the right hardware can virtualization them all with minimal modifications.

I would suspect a combination of specialized hardware, specially designed to download meatminds, and the meatmind being specially adapted to running on thoroughly buggy wetware.

In other words, the meatminds are much more flexible about the hardware they're running on than a normal AI . . . sort of a super-vanilla multihelix.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Cifer wrote:
We're looking at something that has had at least one full cycle of galactic civilization to develop its technology. It would be rather odd if they didn't play by completely different rules.


Not only that, but they spent that time specifically developing mind virtualization technology.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 6:30 am 
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The hardware may also be able to run "normal" HV AIs at a much higher intelligence, and it's optimised for sophont minds.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 11:42 pm 
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10 million years or not, won't any computer be no more powerful than our existing van neuman machines? They might be faster, but still able to do the same calculations. Right?

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:06 am 
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keybounce wrote:
10 million years or not, won't any computer be no more powerful than our existing van neuman machines? They might be faster, but still able to do the same calculations. Right?


That's like saying all computers that are Turing complete are the same. In the context of computers being faster is the same as being more powerful. If one computer can calculate a problem a million times faster than a second one, then the first can do a lot more work. And similarly any minds running on it would be able to process information a lot quicker.

Plus not all computers are the same. A quantum or biological computer clearly has different capabilities than a regular binary one. And the schlock mercenary has trinary computing as their basic level, which has never really been explained, as well as quantum stuff. So really who knows what architecture the All-Star has.

I certainly would not be willing to bet that an architecture designed less than a century ago is the absolute best architecture possible.


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