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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:30 pm 
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The AI is deferring to the bosun on how to make these shots? Faceless advice?

Why do I have the sudden suspicion that the Bosun is an organic Petey node?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:31 pm 
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I'm just thinking about playing billards now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 pm 
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It has been repeatedly established that the AIs in this universe, while they have incredible processing power, are often not that clever. The bosun is probably just a fairly clever, but mundane, uplifted gorilla.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:56 pm 
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And even the smartest of people like to have their work checked. Especially when their Captain is outside, watching, and in the hotzone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:23 pm 
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What's even worse is that if you flub the shot in this situation not only will you kill the captain, but he'll be revived in a few months to chew you out for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:31 am 
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Also, Cindy isn't just old, she's ancient. 800 years.

For reference, Babbage's Analytical Engine was described 180 years ago and we didn't really get the idea of a computer off the ground until ~80 years ago.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:00 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
The AI is deferring to the bosun on how to make these shots? Faceless advice?

Why do I have the sudden suspicion that the Bosun is an organic Petey node?

I doubt that the Bosun is a Petey node. But it would make a nice pun: "running a sim" and "running a simian." :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:55 pm 
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stonefish wrote:
Also, Cindy isn't just old, she's ancient. 800 years.

For reference, Babbage's Analytical Engine was described 180 years ago and we didn't really get the idea of a computer off the ground until ~80 years ago.


That actually raises some interesting questions about UNS ship design. It's implied that Cindy is still using her original hardware, but it's compatible with the new dragon class cruiser. Either human computer technology hasn't really advanced much in those centuries or someone put a lot of thought into maintaining standards and backwards compatibility.

Not only that, but when I went back to check the references that was a Wyvern class gunship. Which implies it was named in the same group as the Dragon class cruiser. Meaning that not only the computers, but the ship classes themselves are pretty old. Though presumably they've seen at least some upgrades since their first fittings.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:13 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
stonefish wrote:
Also, Cindy isn't just old, she's ancient. 800 years.

For reference, Babbage's Analytical Engine was described 180 years ago and we didn't really get the idea of a computer off the ground until ~80 years ago.


That actually raises some interesting questions about UNS ship design. It's implied that Cindy is still using her original hardware, but it's compatible with the new dragon class cruiser. Either human computer technology hasn't really advanced much in those centuries or someone put a lot of thought into maintaining standards and backwards compatibility.

Not only that, but when I went back to check the references that was a Wyvern class gunship. Which implies it was named in the same group as the Dragon class cruiser. Meaning that not only the computers, but the ship classes themselves are pretty old. Though presumably they've seen at least some upgrades since their first fittings.

There's a certain point a technology reaches where it's mature, and becomes difficult to improve on. For example, every B-52 bomber in the air right now was built in or before 1962, and they are expected to keep flying until at least 2045. They've received upgrades, of course, but they are still the same air frame.
We are experiencing something like that right now, with micro-processors.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Motortiki wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
stonefish wrote:
Also, Cindy isn't just old, she's ancient. 800 years.

For reference, Babbage's Analytical Engine was described 180 years ago and we didn't really get the idea of a computer off the ground until ~80 years ago.


That actually raises some interesting questions about UNS ship design. It's implied that Cindy is still using her original hardware, but it's compatible with the new dragon class cruiser. Either human computer technology hasn't really advanced much in those centuries or someone put a lot of thought into maintaining standards and backwards compatibility.

Not only that, but when I went back to check the references that was a Wyvern class gunship. Which implies it was named in the same group as the Dragon class cruiser. Meaning that not only the computers, but the ship classes themselves are pretty old. Though presumably they've seen at least some upgrades since their first fittings.

There's a certain point a technology reaches where it's mature, and becomes difficult to improve on. For example, every B-52 bomber in the air right now was built in or before 1962, and they are expected to keep flying until at least 2045. They've received upgrades, of course, but they are still the same air frame.
We are experiencing something like that right now, with micro-processors.


Sure. And I can see something like that going for a century, maybe two. But eight? Even if there no breakthroughs in the actual physics a lot of that architecture is based on the culture of the designers. I would expect that at certain points they would design new ship classes and entirely new computer architectures not necessarily because they have a revolutionary new technology, but in order to address a new set of requirements or simply for political reasons to break with their predecessors.

For instance in the microprocessor field I know that people have been looking into revising the architecture precisely because the actual physical capabilities are reaching their limits.

That people in the Schlock universe haven't done this not only implies that their practical science hasn't had any breakthroughs in a long time, but that their technological culture as a whole is pretty stagnant. Which admittedly could be attributed to the F'sherl-Ganni's total galactic domination for millennia. It was probably a lot easier to prevent and suppress the teraport if no one was really doing widespread innovations at all. The pervasive black ops intelligence groups running their own projects and suppressing things probably didn't help either.

Edit: Although this doesn't quite match up with the revolutionary creation of the trinary bit in the 25th century. At eight centuries Cindy would be older than the advent of trinary computing. So either it wasn't as revolutionary as the footnote indicates or there was some kind of upgrade scheme going on at the same time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Motortiki wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
stonefish wrote:
Also, Cindy isn't just old, she's ancient. 800 years.

For reference, Babbage's Analytical Engine was described 180 years ago and we didn't really get the idea of a computer off the ground until ~80 years ago.


That actually raises some interesting questions about UNS ship design. It's implied that Cindy is still using her original hardware, but it's compatible with the new dragon class cruiser. Either human computer technology hasn't really advanced much in those centuries or someone put a lot of thought into maintaining standards and backwards compatibility.

Not only that, but when I went back to check the references that was a Wyvern class gunship. Which implies it was named in the same group as the Dragon class cruiser. Meaning that not only the computers, but the ship classes themselves are pretty old. Though presumably they've seen at least some upgrades since their first fittings.

There's a certain point a technology reaches where it's mature, and becomes difficult to improve on. For example, every B-52 bomber in the air right now was built in or before 1962, and they are expected to keep flying until at least 2045. They've received upgrades, of course, but they are still the same air frame.
We are experiencing something like that right now, with micro-processors.


That's one of the reasons a lot of people were against the F-22 and F-35 projects; the planes they're supposed to replace are actually still quite viable, especially with their updates. Yeah they're not the latest and greatest Possible thing, but *nobody else flies anything better, either*. It was seen as a pointless upgrade to already overwhelming air power.

There needs to be a dramatic shift in air doctrine or technology to improve much upon what we have now, and it's very likely that's true for the Schlockiverse, too. We've already seen that with the Teraport allowing ships of immense and unprecedented size to go anywhere, where before the smallest dimension had to fit through a Wormgate. Terapedoes meant ships didn't have to fire their missiles as they were loaded, allowing a vessel to unload all of its guided ordinance at once, and the VDA and Teraprobes allowed for extreme levels of intelligence gathering and recon.

But that was small change. Ships have obviously not gained the next level of technological breakthrough required, since they haven't changed appreciably since at LEAST the time of the Oafans 10~ million years ago.

It's entirely possible they never will, what with there still being several basic requirements that have yet to be overcome. Propulsion, weapons, some form of crew, (AI or organic) and a hull capable of withstanding all that.

Microprocessors and aircraft still have a lot of growing room as technology shifts. Optical or quantum computing, inertialess or 'fuelless' drives, extreme variable geometry airframes a la Macross...

EDIT: incidentally, I think Bristlecone's *frame* may have been 800 years old, but she herself was only six hundred.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Yes I looked again Cindy is 600 hundred years old. Where was that eight centuries number coming from. Her being ancient, and schlock universe ship design stagnating still hold true however.

Though I'm not sure if it's quite so bad as saying the galaxy has stagnated for 10 million years since the Oafans. There was at least one galactic extinction between then and now. So civilizations had to evolve and rebuild everything from scratch, possibly multiple times.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Yes I looked again Cindy is 600 hundred years old. Where was that eight centuries number coming from. Her being ancient, and schlock universe ship design stagnating still hold true however.

Though I'm not sure if it's quite so bad as saying the galaxy has stagnated for 10 million years since the Oafans. There was at least one galactic extinction between then and now. So civilizations had to evolve and rebuild everything from scratch, possibly multiple times.


This is true, but you'd think that a species who lasted until the tail end of their current extinction cycle and built artificial inside-out planets would have managed to work out ships that were more advanced than 'they have really expensive hulls' over current Schlockiverse ships if it were possible. Well, and the long-guns, but that's not super advanced so much as just expensive and only really viable via excessive use of PTUs


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Yes I looked again Cindy is 600 hundred years old. Where was that eight centuries number coming from. Her being ancient, and schlock universe ship design stagnating still hold true however.

Though I'm not sure if it's quite so bad as saying the galaxy has stagnated for 10 million years since the Oafans. There was at least one galactic extinction between then and now. So civilizations had to evolve and rebuild everything from scratch, possibly multiple times.


This is true, but you'd think that a species who lasted until the tail end of their current extinction cycle and built artificial inside-out planets would have managed to work out ships that were more advanced than 'they have really expensive hulls' over current Schlockiverse ships if it were possible. Well, and the long-guns, but that's not super advanced so much as just expensive and only really viable via excessive use of PTUs


I don't know the Oafans seemed to be big into peace, harmony, and being friends with everyone. That isn't a race that screams cutting edge military hardware to me. For one thing even though their warships were tougher they lost to the Pa'anuri, while the gatekeepers at least got a draw. Plus the requirement that the interior of their ships be filled with big empty space doesn't really help. It looks more like they specialized in logistics and used their excess resources to make their ships as tough as possible.

I'd note that their cargo ships had built in teraport cage technology, and no figured that out for quite some time. It's quite possible that the Oafan warships look like regular warships because the people operating them are only looking for regular warship features.

It's also possible that what we've seen so far were the obsolete warships they sent to protect their civilian refugees going into hiding while they're most powerful warships held the line against the Pa'anuri. I mean there isn't much information on what they did or didn't actually have. And we haven't seen anyone find an actual armory yet.

One thing we do know is that some of those galactic wars involved stars being thrown at each other. Which is a level of technology we haven't seen in universe yet.

I think the real indicator won't be the Oafans, but the Allstar. The Allstar retreated with all their infrastructure and science intact, and survived for millions of years as a continuous civilization. We haven't seen what their warships can do yet, but if their capabilities match the capabilities of other galactic powers, then that's probably the best that can be done.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:34 pm 
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On a long production run, it's not only possible but likely that the last units off the line will bear only a visual resemblance to the first units . . . the B-52 is a prime example and its production run was only 10 years!

Another Boeing product, the 747, is an even better example: the basic shape is more-or-less the same, but the equipment and performance are worlds apart. The latest model required half of the flight crew!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:04 pm 
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While this is a fascinating discussion, it must be remembered--we are analyzing technology that can, will, and has changed to meet the needs of the storyline, and analyzing it like it's real world stuff. Howard's actual reason for porting Cindy to different hardware? Doubtless, because he wanted to continue Cindy as a character, but the Toughs didn't need the great big terraporting cargo ship. We don't dissect the science/technology of this and other sci-fi stories because we need to, we do it because it's fun.

That being said, let me step into the land of technological epileptic trees. ;)

I can see at least three situations where (for instance) Cindy's 600-year-old hardware would still function in (1) completely foreign Oafan hardware, and (2) a modern Dragon class, that don't require a stagnant technological culture.

1. The Toughs have technicians who are very good at creating adaptive interfaces.
2. Certain areas of technological science are "finished:--at least as far as electronics, Cindy represents something close enough to peak knowledge in electronics that her hardware can be adapted anywhere.
3. Interfacing AI hardware to a ship isn't very difficult.

Three reasons. Now, none of them are actually very good reasons--the first is the most feasible, and it's pretty lame. But there you have three pretty good, workable, possible reasons for why Cindy's hardware is so easily portable.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:51 pm 
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Black Sheep wrote:
While this is a fascinating discussion, it must be remembered--we are analyzing technology that can, will, and has changed to meet the needs of the storyline, and analyzing it like it's real world stuff. Howard's actual reason for porting Cindy to different hardware? Doubtless, because he wanted to continue Cindy as a character, but the Toughs didn't need the great big terraporting cargo ship. We don't dissect the science/technology of this and other sci-fi stories because we need to, we do it because it's fun.

That being said, let me step into the land of technological epileptic trees. ;)

I can see at least three situations where (for instance) Cindy's 600-year-old hardware would still function in (1) completely foreign Oafan hardware, and (2) a modern Dragon class, that don't require a stagnant technological culture.

1. The Toughs have technicians who are very good at creating adaptive interfaces.
2. Certain areas of technological science are "finished:--at least as far as electronics, Cindy represents something close enough to peak knowledge in electronics that her hardware can be adapted anywhere.
3. Interfacing AI hardware to a ship isn't very difficult.

Three reasons. Now, none of them are actually very good reasons--the first is the most feasible, and it's pretty lame. But there you have three pretty good, workable, possible reasons for why Cindy's hardware is so easily portable.

4. Cindy had been retrofitted many times over the decades. I believe she was already fitted with a tearaport before she changed ownership to para. I wouldn't be surprised if she had many overhauls over the years. She belonged to a private police force, it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that her owners had repaired and maintained over the years. What's end of life for one company would just need a spit n shine to another.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:38 am 
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The thing about all those reasons is that it was specifically stated that they needed an AI running on that model of hardware, or one in the same family I expect, in order to interface with the dragon cruiser.

I suppose it's probably a combination of the fact that the shipyard robots work to specifications and aren't on Kevyn and Paras level of being able to mount an AI anywhere, and the fact that Cindy was on hand and wanted to continue to work with the Toughs, but needed a new body to do so.

And I'm not saying that Cindy wasn't upgraded over the years. I'm almost certain it specifically stated that the gunship had many upgrade somewhere, though I can't find the reference. It was more the fact that they used the same gunship for hundreds of years. You'd think at some point people would want a new type just for newness sake.

Although actually now that I think about it both the Dragon and Wyvern were being used by civilian mercenaries. I suppose it's possible that the actual Navy does have better ships now, and released their old models into the public sphere. That cruiser that cut the Espee tree did seem to have a main gun very similar to the one the Synthetic Certainty now mounts.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:25 am 
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Unrelatedly, there were about 30 or so 0.99 HV intelligent CQ101s milling around. What were they doing with their down cycles? It probably wasn't strategizing from their current tactics of "run in and die without even firing back".


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:36 am 
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grahamf wrote:
Black Sheep wrote:
While this is a fascinating discussion, it must be remembered--we are analyzing technology that can, will, and has changed to meet the needs of the storyline, and analyzing it like it's real world stuff. Howard's actual reason for porting Cindy to different hardware? Doubtless, because he wanted to continue Cindy as a character, but the Toughs didn't need the great big terraporting cargo ship. We don't dissect the science/technology of this and other sci-fi stories because we need to, we do it because it's fun.

That being said, let me step into the land of technological epileptic trees. ;)

I can see at least three situations where (for instance) Cindy's 600-year-old hardware would still function in (1) completely foreign Oafan hardware, and (2) a modern Dragon class, that don't require a stagnant technological culture.

1. The Toughs have technicians who are very good at creating adaptive interfaces.
2. Certain areas of technological science are "finished:--at least as far as electronics, Cindy represents something close enough to peak knowledge in electronics that her hardware can be adapted anywhere.
3. Interfacing AI hardware to a ship isn't very difficult.

Three reasons. Now, none of them are actually very good reasons--the first is the most feasible, and it's pretty lame. But there you have three pretty good, workable, possible reasons for why Cindy's hardware is so easily portable.

4. Cindy had been retrofitted many times over the decades. I believe she was already fitted with a tearaport before she changed ownership to para. I wouldn't be surprised if she had many overhauls over the years. She belonged to a private police force, it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that her owners had repaired and maintained over the years. What's end of life for one company would just need a spit n shine to another.

I'd like to propose 5 (or maybe 4.1): Cindy is Theseus's ship. The development of the Trinary Digit is huge enough that there should really be nothing from before that could survive it (*), much less be able to run modern ships with any efficiency. The modern Cindy shares no hardware with her first incarnation and her process uses the first software (if it even remains beyond some quirks) probably mostly for the data saved.

(*) except for that government computer on Luna


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Cifer wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Black Sheep wrote:
While this is a fascinating discussion, it must be remembered--we are analyzing technology that can, will, and has changed to meet the needs of the storyline, and analyzing it like it's real world stuff. Howard's actual reason for porting Cindy to different hardware? Doubtless, because he wanted to continue Cindy as a character, but the Toughs didn't need the great big terraporting cargo ship. We don't dissect the science/technology of this and other sci-fi stories because we need to, we do it because it's fun.

That being said, let me step into the land of technological epileptic trees. ;)

I can see at least three situations where (for instance) Cindy's 600-year-old hardware would still function in (1) completely foreign Oafan hardware, and (2) a modern Dragon class, that don't require a stagnant technological culture.

1. The Toughs have technicians who are very good at creating adaptive interfaces.
2. Certain areas of technological science are "finished:--at least as far as electronics, Cindy represents something close enough to peak knowledge in electronics that her hardware can be adapted anywhere.
3. Interfacing AI hardware to a ship isn't very difficult.

Three reasons. Now, none of them are actually very good reasons--the first is the most feasible, and it's pretty lame. But there you have three pretty good, workable, possible reasons for why Cindy's hardware is so easily portable.

4. Cindy had been retrofitted many times over the decades. I believe she was already fitted with a tearaport before she changed ownership to para. I wouldn't be surprised if she had many overhauls over the years. She belonged to a private police force, it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that her owners had repaired and maintained over the years. What's end of life for one company would just need a spit n shine to another.

I'd like to propose 5 (or maybe 4.1): Cindy is Theseus's ship. The development of the Trinary Digit is huge enough that there should really be nothing from before that could survive it (*), much less be able to run modern ships with any efficiency. The modern Cindy shares no hardware with her first incarnation and her process uses the first software (if it even remains beyond some quirks) probably mostly for the data saved.

(*) except for that government computer on Luna

We know that AI's run on some sort of quantum hardware, which is tech that has really moved beyond traditional 'bits'. The invention of a trinary bit would have little impact on how quantum computing structures are designed.

A ship's brain is somewhat modular: Cindy could of had various parts swapped out over time, like her old binary memory swapped for new trinary, maybe a new bus every now and again. But her core quantum structure, the part that contains all the decision making and personality, would be the original, 600 year old part.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
You'd think at some point people would want a new type just for newness sake.

No? Why?

If you're running a business you are in it to make money, thus you will spend money in order to make money. Not just because "Hey, this perfectly good ship is over a century old. We should replace this perfectly fine ship for no other reason than newer ships exist!"


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Hgow do we know Cindy had the same owners for 600 years? It's possible that she went through multiple cycles of being replaced, then purchased by a new company that upgraded her then put her back into service.

Plus she is a warship. She was engineered to survive battles, and that same engineering allows her to withstand years of wear and tear - providing she wasn't a part of skirmishes that approached the worst-case scenarios she was designed for.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:34 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
You'd think at some point people would want a new type just for newness sake.

No? Why?

If you're running a business you are in it to make money, thus you will spend money in order to make money. Not just because "Hey, this perfectly good ship is over a century old. We should replace this perfectly fine ship for no other reason than newer ships exist!"


Not all business decisions are made from pure rationality. I've heard lots and lots of stories of people and businesses getting upgrades simply because it's new even if it's not better, even if it's an inferior product. That newness branding draws people in. It's designed to so that the people who make those things can sell their product and make money. And that doesn't change even if you're talking about big military component supplies.

Plus as mentioned earlier there was the whole F22-F35 thing where the old fighters were perfectly serviceable, but they wanted something newer and better just because. I know a new bomber has been lobbied recently on similar principles. And I've heard similar things about navy warships, though they're so expensive not many make it into production. So it's not like governments are immune to wanting the latest and greatest. And that's not even factoring in arms races with other powers. Perfectly serviceable doesn't cut it in those conditions.

grahamf wrote:
Hgow do we know Cindy had the same owners for 600 years? It's possible that she went through multiple cycles of being replaced, then purchased by a new company that upgraded her then put her back into service.

Plus she is a warship. She was engineered to survive battles, and that same engineering allows her to withstand years of wear and tear - providing she wasn't a part of skirmishes that approached the worst-case scenarios she was designed for.


We don't. That's probably the most likely reason for her age. Although it seems like even just a few battles has been shown to be enough to batter a warships hull heavily. Her 600 hundred years of service must have been relatively combat free. But then it seems she was on guard duty most of the time. So that is entirely possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Not all business decisions are made from pure rationality.

Sure. Now remember again whom her previous owners were.

Sanctum Adroit. Do they strike you as the type to have "upgrade fever"?



evileeyore wrote:
And even the smartest of people like to have their work checked. Especially when their Captain is outside, watching, and in the hotzone.

I'm coming back to this comment I made earlier...

When I made this comment for some reason I was under the impression that Cindy had offered up the idea of using the tank's shadow as a shield for the guys outside... now I see that it was the hivemind.

So... no, I have no idea why Cindy can't run the sims herself (however we are now discussing her age... so maybe her age is showing?).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:58 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Not all business decisions are made from pure rationality.

Sure. Now remember again whom her previous owners were.

Sanctum Adroit. Do they strike you as the type to have "upgrade fever"?



evileeyore wrote:
And even the smartest of people like to have their work checked. Especially when their Captain is outside, watching, and in the hotzone.

I'm coming back to this comment I made earlier...

When I made this comment for some reason I was under the impression that Cindy had offered up the idea of using the tank's shadow as a shield for the guys outside... now I see that it was the hivemind.

So... no, I have no idea why Cindy can't run the sims herself (however we are now discussing her age... so maybe her age is showing?).

Cind is still a computer. A very smart computer, but still a computer. Her intelligence derives from the known, and so her improv skills are possibly quite limited. She could run a trillion simulations as to what would happen when she fires her gun, and might never consider a trick shot.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:27 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Cind is still a computer. A very smart computer, but still a computer. Her intelligence derives from the known, and so her improv skills are possibly quite limited. She could run a trillion simulations as to what would happen when she fires her gun, and might never consider a trick shot.

Sure except that TAG/Tagii would have taken the shot and wrapped up the conflict in a neat bow already.

What we don't know is what Cindy was initially grown to do... but we do know (or can theorize) what she has since grown to do: Police Work.

Which does not include taking trick shots on a battlefield. She's very likely to have developed to a) minimize casualties and b) increment force usage only when necessary.

So it's possible she's just not set up to run these sorts of combat sims without all her internal biases.

(Yeah, I've thought a bit about it since posting that last comment)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:45 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Not all business decisions are made from pure rationality.

Sure. Now remember again whom her previous owners were.

Sanctum Adroit. Do they strike you as the type to have "upgrade fever"?


It probably all ties together. The people who do have upgrade fever, such as the UNS navy, are the ones who initially developed the Wyvern class six hundred years ago, or more Cindy might not have been a first production. Then they designed a better class and sold Cindy, and the Wyvern blueprints most likely, off to civilian contractors. She most likely then passed through multiple hands until settling with Sanctum Adroit who were practical enough to want a tried and true class, and involved in mostly police work so they didn't need the absolute best gunship around. Just one better than what any criminals would have. She was the ultimate big stick in Haven Hive for instance.

evileeyore wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Cind is still a computer. A very smart computer, but still a computer. Her intelligence derives from the known, and so her improv skills are possibly quite limited. She could run a trillion simulations as to what would happen when she fires her gun, and might never consider a trick shot.

Sure except that TAG/Tagii would have taken the shot and wrapped up the conflict in a neat bow already.

What we don't know is what Cindy was initially grown to do... but we do know (or can theorize) what she has since grown to do: Police Work.

Which does not include taking trick shots on a battlefield. She's very likely to have developed to a) minimize casualties and b) increment force usage only when necessary.

So it's possible she's just not set up to run these sorts of combat sims without all her internal biases.

(Yeah, I've thought a bit about it since posting that last comment)


We can also see this when Cindy was plotting the counter missile fire in Eina'Afa. She was playing conservatively, but Tagon was immediately able to evaluate the situation and deal with it in a way she didn't really consider.

TAG/TAGII on the other hand was built to be a bona fide military genius. TAG destroyed itself saving Credomar in a span of time biologicals couldn't even process. TAGII could hold her own against an entire fleet, and outmaneuvered a battleplate after she went insane. Obviously not all AIs are equally effective tacticians.

Cindy has the basic AI advantages of speed and advanced sensory data, but she lacks battle experience and tactics. She can however execute any tactic she is given quickly and effectively. In every case we've seen she announced completion of the objective shortly after the tactic was suggested to her. She just isn't innovative enough to consider them herself.

As a side note while I was digging through the archives looking for that I found a reference from Sorlie as to how the UNS built the best ships. Given that we've also seen them built new classes of battleplate I would say this implies that they at least do not stick with tried and true designs for centuries.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Whose to say Cindy didn't think of firing a trick shot before it was suggested? When the tactic was suggested she didn't say she hadn't thought of it, which she has in the past, she just expressed annoyance that she's being told to aim carefully again.


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