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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Quick question- do other galactic powers use battleplates?

It's presumable that they have ships in the same size class, but is a generic term? Or at least, would humans translate whatever term they had as 'battleplate' (like we presumably do for carriers etc.)?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Terrans have battleplates. O'benn have super-fortresses. Petey has Extortionator-class warships. Presumably they're all called something different and that's why Planet Mercenary just labels them all as Q7, Q8...

...edit: what a backwards rating system. Narrator: You encounter....a G4! It's the size of a planet, but only has enough firepower to keep its insect population under control. Also in the system is an E2, a large gas giant with a mining laser.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:36 pm 
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The numbering system is certainly confusing, but to the topic: Battleplates are the UNS supership. A few other powers have similarly powerful ships (Petey and the Psychobears, as noted), but most DON'T. There's a reason the UNS is a galactic superpower.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:27 pm 
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I don't think Ob'enn superfortresses are comparable to battleplates. Both were built when the wormgate network was the only practical means of interstellar travel, but the former were able to fit through wormgates, while the latter were not - they were designed exclusively for defense of the Sol system.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Sure, and PD ships make plates look like chump change. But Superfortresses were at least the strength of a UNS carrier group (according to an offhand comment by Tagon) so I'd say they're still a supership beyond almost all races.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:35 pm 
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During the Core War, it was mentioned that only O'benn 'plate-class ships could match the sub-generators in gravy power. They seem to have the top warships in each size category, with the superfortresses being the strongest warships that could travel through gates, and something probably reminiscent of Petey's heavy warships serving as their battleplate analogues.

All major galactic powers presumably have battleplate analogues, but most places the Toughs went before the Oafans probably lacked the resources for them.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:40 pm 
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I might be mistaken, but I seem to vaguely remember that superfortress' annie plant is larger than annie plants on battleplate by noticeable margin. That would make superfortress more powerful than battleplate. PD-ships generally seem to have even larger plants, outclassing both superfortresses and battleplates.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:44 pm 
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No, the superfortress has a ~600m annie plant, while battleplate plants are over a kilometer apiece. Extortionators have 18-kilometer annie plants.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:50 pm 
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(name here) wrote:
No, the superfortress has a ~600m annie plant, while battleplate plants are over a kilometer apiece. Extortionators have 18-kilometer annie plants.


Are you sure about this? While Extortionators were designed without wormgate limitations, 18km is way above and beyond Battleplate/Superfortress range you quote. 18km sphere has nearly 6 thousand times larger volume than 1km sphere. Considering that apparently power increases exponentially, instead of cubically with size, ship with 18km annie plant should be able to take on all the battleplates.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Yes. We see the Pilated Daisies by a battleplate, which is eighteen kilometers long, and it is approximately the same size and comprised almost entirely of annie plant.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:48 pm 
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My thinking is most superpowers would have need for the battleplate’s role- ie stopping high energy extinction level attacks coming from odd angles, physically if need be- and a lot of them are going to be fairly similar in form, form following function and all, and would likely be called Battleplates, at least in english translation. Redundant annies for more nodes of deflection, high carrying capacity and all that.

Superfortresses and Extortioners are different, being purely warships meant for more offensive function.

It also strikes me ‘Plate class’ is not very Obenn in terms of naming convention, suggesting to me it’s a generic.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:10 am 
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(name here) wrote:
Yes. We see the Pilated Daisies by a battleplate, which is eighteen kilometers long, and it is approximately the same size and comprised almost entirely of annie plant.

Battleplates are definitely not 18km long, where are you getting that? A battleplate has annie plants of about 1km, that puts the Plaited Daisy at about 5km


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:36 am 
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(name here) wrote:
Yes. We see the Pilated Daisies by a battleplate, which is eighteen kilometers long, and it is approximately the same size and comprised almost entirely of annie plant.


Cindercone is spherical and is quoted as eight kilometers across: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-03-31

And again here: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-09-03

A tricorn-class battleplate seems to be just barely able to fit inside Cindercone: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-06-21


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:20 am 
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dire wrote:
Terrans have battleplates. O'benn have super-fortresses. Petey has Extortionator-class warships. Presumably they're all called something different and that's why Planet Mercenary just labels them all as Q7, Q8...

...edit: what a backwards rating system. Narrator: You encounter....a G4! It's the size of a planet, but only has enough firepower to keep its insect population under control. Also in the system is an E2, a large gas giant with a mining laser.



Again, I think the weapon class is MULTIPLIED by the size class.

IE, a Z9 would be absolutely crushed by a T5 simply because the T5 has enough gravy to just ignore anything the miniscule Z9 could possibly field. (minus the unclassifiable Long Gun capability)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:45 am 
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On a similar note, is the Cloak a battleplate? Just a really, really, disgustingly huge one?

I'd lean to 'yes,' since it seems to follow similar design lines.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:06 am 
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The Ob'enn Cloak of Untrammeled Dignity is made up of many Ob'enn plate class ships as shown in the bonus story of book 7 they are so large they deploy superfortresses like a carrier deploys fighters.

Human battleplates have 3-5 1km+ annieplants. (largest annie plants humans can build around 3km http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2012-03-18)

Ob'enn superfortresses have 500m primary annie plants. All Ob'enn ships now belong to Petey as shown in the bonus story of book 7.

Petey's own ships have a single 1km or smaller annie plant except the Plaited Daises the only shown extortionator class which according to this poster http://www.schlockmercenary.com/assets/ ... -web-1.jpg has around a 2km annie plant

The above poster also shows that the vast majority of ships are smaller than the 500m primary annie plant of a superfortress.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:10 am 
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Q99 wrote:
On a similar note, is the Cloak a battleplate? Just a really, really, disgustingly huge one?

I'd lean to 'yes,' since it seems to follow similar design lines.



1t's actually over a dozen Ob'enn battleplates connected together as shown in the bonus story of book 7.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:16 am 
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(name here) wrote:
Yes. We see the Pilated Daisies by a battleplate, which is eighteen kilometers long, and it is approximately the same size and comprised almost entirely of annie plant.



Depends which panel the first panel shows the Plaited Daisies with annie plants at about double the size of the battleplates which matches this poster http://www.schlockmercenary.com/assets/ ... -web-1.jpg.

The third panel shows the Plaited Daisies annie to be bigger than the battleplate but the perspective seems to show the Plaited Daisies much closer to the VDA node giving us the picture.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:30 am 
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Q99 wrote:
Quick question- do other galactic powers use battleplates?

It's presumable that they have ships in the same size class, but is a generic term? Or at least, would humans translate whatever term they had as 'battleplate' (like we presumably do for carriers etc.)?



How many nations have aircraft carriers compared to the USA? It has been stated that the 950 million Gavs outnumber numerous entire species and there are over 1 trillion humans (or Sol originated species it's never clear if it includes the uplifts) http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-07-14.

The F'Sherl-Ganni don't even bother with many warships they use there duplication tech to mass produce smart munitions when attacked.

The Ob'enn where nuts and had an insystem enemy to explain there mass buildout of warships.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:25 am 
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Something else-
Schlock tech is generally non-unique and replicatable, and the Battleplates don't seem to have unique technology (ala a long gun or the like), so even if the UNS actually was the originators and inventors for the battleplate style of ships, if they're effective and do the job well, I'd say you've got maybe ten years or so before other powers begin working up their own models based on the same approach. There'd be differences of course, but if a ship class is good for basic design reasons, others are likely to pick up on that unless there's some reason they can't (like the Cloak is probably the biggest ship in the known galaxy, but that's just because no-one else has the PTU resources!). Most of the major powers should be able to make equivalents of things their peers do, so unless the Battleplate is actually considered a poor design approach for the job, which I doubt, then their existence would make more.


ushio wrote:
Ob'enn superfortresses have 500m primary annie plants. All Ob'enn ships now belong to Petey as shown in the bonus story of book 7.


Wait, all of them, not just some of them? Is that bit confirmed? I thought they were still a notable power even past that point, if one who's felt the pinch.


ushio wrote:
How many nations have aircraft carriers compared to the USA?


Eight countries have 'em, a bit more if you count under constructions. Here's a chart


We know there's a lot of galactic powers out there- the UNS is a big dog but there's a good number of big dogs, for the core war Petey packed a room full of dozens of people from different 'galactic powers' with the note that that's just who was able to show up in time.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:42 am 
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There are lots of navies, of varying power. As you say, 8 have carriers.

Match any of them against a US Supercarrier and see what happens. Heck, the US has more carriers than my country has warships in our navy, period.

It seems likely that while any Schlock-verse power would LOVE to have a plate-class ship, few have the resources. It's not just "do we have enough PTUs," from what we've been told building bigger annies gets exponentially harder, and you don't have a plate-class ship without those ridiculous plants. You just have a somewhat-mobile shipyard.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:16 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
There are lots of navies, of varying power. As you say, 8 have carriers.

Match any of them against a US Supercarrier and see what happens. Heck, the US has more carriers than my country has warships in our navy, period.

It seems likely that while any Schlock-verse power would LOVE to have a plate-class ship, few have the resources. It's not just "do we have enough PTUs," from what we've been told building bigger annies gets exponentially harder, and you don't have a plate-class ship without those ridiculous plants. You just have a somewhat-mobile shipyard.


Oh, quite, I would agree *most* don’t, probably 90% plus don’t. I am under the impression those who do likely number at least a dozen or two (guessing based on the ‘galactic powers’ that showed up at the core war), maybe more. And yea, some of those would have smaller ones, maybe tris only in some cases, maybe less.

The US equivalent who has the biggest and best wouldn’t be the UNS, additionally, but the Ob’enn.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Q99 wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
There are lots of navies, of varying power. As you say, 8 have carriers.

Match any of them against a US Supercarrier and see what happens. Heck, the US has more carriers than my country has warships in our navy, period.

It seems likely that while any Schlock-verse power would LOVE to have a plate-class ship, few have the resources. It's not just "do we have enough PTUs," from what we've been told building bigger annies gets exponentially harder, and you don't have a plate-class ship without those ridiculous plants. You just have a somewhat-mobile shipyard.


Oh, quite, I would agree *most* don’t, probably 90% plus don’t. I am under the impression those who do likely number at least a dozen or two (guessing based on the ‘galactic powers’ that showed up at the core war), maybe more. And yea, some of those would have smaller ones, maybe tris only in some cases, maybe less.

The US equivalent who has the biggest and best wouldn’t be the UNS, additionally, but the Ob’enn.


Mainly because the Ob'enn had a small moons worth of PTUs dropped right into their laps thousands of years ago. The fact the UNS has grown so large in less than a thousand years is pretty impressive. Not bad for starting with a loaner plant.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Q99 wrote:
Wait, all of them, not just some of them? Is that bit confirmed? I thought they were still a notable power even past that point, if one who's felt the pinch.


The Ob'enn are being treated like Germany was after WW2 to break there racist ideology. Petey has all there ships now. Go read book 8 onwards Ob'enn are only referenced in how they got the PTU's to make so many big ships (they found an Oafan PTU depot http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2016-04-03)


ushio wrote:
How many nations have aircraft carriers compared to the USA?


Q99 wrote:
Eight countries have 'em, a bit more if you count under constructions. [url=T]Here's a chart[/url]


So out of 195 nations of Earth 15 have ships classed as either aircraft or helicopter carriers the USA has 50% of currently commissioned ships in number and far above that in tonnage.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:56 pm 
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I know Petey has been trying to make a kinder gentler Obenn, but can you point more specifically to ‘all the ships’? I can’t find anyone saying they don’t have a navy.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:46 pm 
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I'm fairly sure Petey has the Ob'enn pinned down, but I don't remember anywhere where it says he actually defeated them. And given that he would have to get past the cloak to really do so I find it doubtful even for him.

The Planet Mercenary RPG, which we're taking in canon for the ship classification table, states that the Ob'enn's current fleet is currently pinned inside their system by external TAD fields. I doubt that would be necessary if people didn't think they were still a threat.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:17 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
There are lots of navies, of varying power. As you say, 8 have carriers.

Match any of them against a US Supercarrier and see what happens.


I know the result: US carriers sink if they try taking on any proper navy. Over last 3 decades, exercises have shown that US Navy is consistently incapable of defending their carriers against submarine attacks. Main role of modern carriers is force projection against inferior force.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:55 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
There are lots of navies, of varying power. As you say, 8 have carriers.

Match any of them against a US Supercarrier and see what happens.


I know the result: US carriers sink if they try taking on any proper navy. Over last 3 decades, exercises have shown that US Navy is consistently incapable of defending their carriers against submarine attacks. Main role of modern carriers is force projection against inferior force.

The US military has some serious systematic problems with their readiness exercises. While that is definitely the modern role of carriers, we also live in a time where major powers don't directly confront each other. I have a hard time believing carriers would be of limited use in a serious military confrontation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the role of air superiority is still considered crucial to winning a battle, right?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:06 am 
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Motortiki wrote:
I have a hard time believing carriers would be of limited use in a serious military confrontation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the role of air superiority is still considered crucial to winning a battle, right?

It is, but the fighters on board US carriers these days are rather short-ranged, and they lack a long-range missile. Also, US fighter pilot training has not been seriously tested for a long time.

The current naval situation has some definite similarities to the decade before WWI. The technology has moved on a long way since the last serious conflict, which almost certainly means that there are some mistaken ideas in the plans to use it. That was demonstrated repeatedly during WWI; by the end of the war, the navies knew what they were doing. Twenty years later, the new technologies were radar and effective naval aircraft, and the navies that used those best won their parts of WWII.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:54 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
I'm fairly sure Petey has the Ob'enn pinned down, but I don't remember anywhere where it says he actually defeated them. And given that he would have to get past the cloak to really do so I find it doubtful even for him.

The Planet Mercenary RPG, which we're taking in canon for the ship classification table, states that the Ob'enn's current fleet is currently pinned inside their system by external TAD fields. I doubt that would be necessary if people didn't think they were still a threat.


Yea, that fits with my impression as well. Keep the external pressure on and wait for internal pressure to grow and crack them. The Andromeda war also means sparing enough power to take on such a big military is not as available as it once was.


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