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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Red in the background. It's doubtful that the Toughs are splatting the crew so it looks like this was a goober run. Support for the "let's not make a galactic incident" theory, though I still feel like Tagon expects some loose arms on the deck soon.

Going back to this makes yesterday's strip that much more of a headscratcher though.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Certainly looks like a goober rounds.

Now I have following question: is Elf that overconfident, or UPA is that inept? They really don't have single small arm capable of piercing carbonan on entire ship?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:24 pm 
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My guess is yes they have them, but they don't habitually wear them. And they never even considered that this could end in a boarding action.

I mean, I'd still want to be in heavy armour. It only takes one.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:44 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Certainly looks like a goober rounds.

Now I have following question: is Elf that overconfident, or UPA is that inept? They really don't have single small arm capable of piercing carbonan on entire ship?



This confirms my theory that Shiplord Srabben is completely ignorant of anything regarding military science beyond knowing which is the trigger and which way the gun shoots.
He is probably used to fighting other equally ignorant and under equipped militias so he developed a "bludgeon your enemy with firepower and sift the remains."

He is way over his head with a capable military force that can block your bludgeon and insert a stiletto to your heart with minimum force and maximum damage.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Oh, the stiletto is minimum damage, too . . . just enough to kill.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:05 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
My guess is yes they have them, but they don't habitually wear them. And they never even considered that this could end in a boarding action.

I mean, I'd still want to be in heavy armour. It only takes one.


Exactly. It only takes one. So either she is overconfident to roam enemy ship just in carbonan when there are better options available, or she somehow actually knows for sure (and somehow knows that Murphy has no power here) that they don't have or can't use such guns.

In latter case... yes, militias are underequpped compared to regulars, but this is like fighting bombers with spears. And they are not playing Civilization.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:39 pm 
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I mean really this just goes back to the earlier argument of "Why are you sending through a heavy who immediately sheds their heavy status?"

Especially since it seemed that the Tough's default combat armour had switched nearly exclusively to Heavy since the Osiri arc.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:43 pm 
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I don't think it's that bad of an assumption that they wouldn't have any guns able to pierce carbonan. Before they got Petey and his fabbers, the Toughs pretty much just had Schlock's plasgun for that. The UPA seems to be an independent, self-funded group in a relatively poor system, the sort of group the Toughs would be about a match for back when they were flying around on the Kitesfear.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:46 pm 
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I'd say it's less that they don't have anything that can punch through carbonan and more that Elf isn't LETTING them use anything that can punch through carbonan.

She's hitting them fast and sneaky, she has her pauldrones taking and securing vital areas, and she's covering Srabben with one even as she has a pistol on him.

There's more to a boarding action and infantry warfare than lining up and letting the enemy shoot you. And the UPA clearly had NO clue what was going on if the bridge was only getting alerted by the time Elf was already reaching there. This would be after she'd taken engineering and left the Bugs to their construction, so the Toughs have been there at LEAST five minutes. Thats an ABYSMAL report time, suggesting that it was either a fluke or careful timing that let them find out in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
I'd say it's less that they don't have anything that can punch through carbonan and more that Elf isn't LETTING them use anything that can punch through carbonan.

She's hitting them fast and sneaky, she has her pauldrones taking and securing vital areas, and she's covering Srabben with one even as she has a pistol on him.

There's more to a boarding action and infantry warfare than lining up and letting the enemy shoot you. And the UPA clearly had NO clue what was going on if the bridge was only getting alerted by the time Elf was already reaching there. This would be after she'd taken engineering and left the Bugs to their construction, so the Toughs have been there at LEAST five minutes. Thats an ABYSMAL report time, suggesting that it was either a fluke or careful timing that let them find out in the first place.


Probably big ship with minimum crew. Most current ships do not require a large crew to operate. In cargo ships, most of the crew are cargo handlers not ship handlers. Ship handlers are basically bridge, navigation and engineering. In warships you have to add sensors and weapons.

It seems that this scene is showing his entire ship security complement, which probably were overwhelmed during the initial entry and could not send the alarm until somebody saw the intruders before the intruders saw him.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:19 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Now I have following question: is Elf that overconfident, or UPA is that inept? They really don't have single small arm capable of piercing carbonan on entire ship?

They might have some, but it would hardly matter since the ship was swept by drones. If the crew was capable of any resistance, it would only have been against automated drones which doesn't really care much if they are shot or destroyed as you can just stuff the remains back into the fabber and make a new one. By the time Elf shows up on the scene, the action is already over.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:36 am 
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I imagine most of them were probably taken down/goobered while running toward the noise, possibly with weapons still holstered, to see if it was a hull breach that needed patching.

Everything we've seen so far suggests that, yes, (most of) these guys are that incompetent. Like the captain ordering his crew to ready weapons only after a boarding party is confirmed, rather than, oh, the start of the engagement. (Which, based on the lack of response from the missile cloud, was some time after the actual start.)

This whole thing, stature of the locals included, reminds me of the meme "How Many Five Year Olds Can You Fight?"


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:30 am 
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M[i]ech wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
My guess is yes they have them, but they don't habitually wear them. And they never even considered that this could end in a boarding action.

I mean, I'd still want to be in heavy armour. It only takes one.


Exactly. It only takes one. So either she is overconfident to roam enemy ship just in carbonan when there are better options available, or she somehow actually knows for sure (and somehow knows that Murphy has no power here) that they don't have or can't use such guns.

In latter case... yes, militias are underequpped compared to regulars, but this is like fighting bombers with spears. And they are not playing Civilization.


I like that comment. A reference to a bug in an earlier version of Civilization that failed to put limits on what a unit could do.

So a lone barbarian warrior could destroy an aircraft carrier from shore. With a spear I suppose.

EXTREMELY low odds, ... but possible.

Later they fixed that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:37 pm 
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While I don't begrudge Elf her fun in being a flaxen-haired Godess of War again, shouldn't this be Peri's show? I get why they wouldn't want Peri rolling in unsupervised, and I'm still holding out hope that she's off panel and two steps behind.

Yes, the "grunts" can subdue the shitlord, bring him in chains before the Master and throw him to the floor to grovel before her, but that wasn't the threat.....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Daniel the Broc wrote:
While I don't begrudge Elf her fun in being a flaxen-haired Godess of War again, shouldn't this be Peri's show? I get why they wouldn't want Peri rolling in unsupervised, and I'm still holding out hope that she's off panel and two steps behind.

Yes, the "grunts" can subdue the shitlord, bring him in chains before the Master and throw him to the floor to grovel before her, but that wasn't the threat.....


Peri is not trained in the heavy armor. Elf is the only one who is experienced enough to do the initial breach.
Very likely Peri will enter last as the "Merc CO" who will compliment "her" troops for the successful boarding and capture of the ship and the shiplord.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Zeus67 wrote:
Daniel the Broc wrote:
While I don't begrudge Elf her fun in being a flaxen-haired Godess of War again, shouldn't this be Peri's show? I get why they wouldn't want Peri rolling in unsupervised, and I'm still holding out hope that she's off panel and two steps behind.

Yes, the "grunts" can subdue the shitlord, bring him in chains before the Master and throw him to the floor to grovel before her, but that wasn't the threat.....


Peri is not trained in the heavy armor. Elf is the only one who is experienced enough to do the initial breach.
Very likely Peri will enter last as the "Merc CO" who will compliment "her" troops for the successful boarding and capture of the ship and the shiplord.



The initial breach? Absolutely I agree that Elf was the best and most qualified for the initial beachhead.
But that entry was at least a couple decks below the bridge going by this ship diagram. There's enough space and time between the breech and the bridge, which would have let Peri come in on the bridge assault. She should be more than qualified with the low profile armor to be there. Otherwise why are they paying her in the first place?

This feels like they're going for a Vader Reveal, where the triumphant commander strides in though. It's iconic yes. But that's still not what Peri threatened. [/quibble]


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Though the effect will be better when she casually walks up to the captain with two soldiers at her side. And considering the first assault was from one of their shorter officers, the captain may be adjusting to that (probably never seen a foreigner up close before) only to find out Peri towers even higher.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:54 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Though the effect will be better when she casually walks up to the captain with two soldiers at her side. And considering the first assault was from one of their shorter officers, the captain may be adjusting to that (probably never seen a foreigner up close before) only to find out Peri towers even higher.


Elf isn't short, not since Zoojack when she lost her legs. Initially she got prosthetics made of Valkyrie (?) armour Toughs tried to use against diamond beetles, later she had legs reconstructed and was made taller.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Peri is still much taller though.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Poor Peri, she's taking Andy's old slot of comedic punchline...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:14 am 
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JohnSmith wrote:
Red in the background. It's doubtful that the Toughs are splatting the crew so it looks like this was a goober run. Support for the "let's not make a galactic incident" theory, though I still feel like Tagon expects some loose arms on the deck soon.

Going back to this makes yesterday's strip that much more of a headscratcher though.


Note that given their medical technology, ripping someone's arm (or head) off is merely painful, not lethal.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:30 pm 
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rwstyles wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
Red in the background. It's doubtful that the Toughs are splatting the crew so it looks like this was a goober run. Support for the "let's not make a galactic incident" theory, though I still feel like Tagon expects some loose arms on the deck soon.

Going back to this makes yesterday's strip that much more of a headscratcher though.


Note that given their medical technology, ripping someone's arm (or head) off is merely painful, not lethal.

So she can follow through on her threat, then make the captain beg for his arm back.

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