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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Huh. Peri might not even need to do any arm-ripping.
Utter disbelief of how slipshod your enemy actually was seems like a good reason to go from fury to slightly contemptuous pity. Less painful for the shiplord, but possibly more humiliating.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:16 pm 
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This explains the thing the upels were riding. It is faster than walking, and gives them a boost to reach stuff otherwise out of reach.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:22 pm 
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I wonder if they are going to offer to retrofit the ship (and maybe give the crew a chart). The captain is showing some hubris and maybe is open to negotiations.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:30 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
The captain is showing some hubris and maybe is open to negotiations.

Did you mean "humility" there?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:48 pm 
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The helm cat is showing humility. The shiplord has shown nothing but hubris.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
The helm cat is showing humility. The shiplord has shown nothing but hubris.


He is probably the typical bully. He got in for the adventure and to kick other people without any danger to himself and now that he finds himself facing truly dangerous enemies... Well, he probably wishes he is somewhere else.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Zeus67 wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
The helm cat is showing humility. The shiplord has shown nothing but hubris.
He is probably the typical bully. He got in for the adventure and to kick other people without any danger to himself and now that he finds himself facing truly dangerous enemies... Well, he probably wishes he is somewhere else.

I think that's a safe bet . . .

I wonder if he's going to try to arrange being somewhere else?

Orrr . . . will his crew arrange an "accident" and say he was trying to escape?

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:51 pm 
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This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:57 am 
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rwstyles wrote:
This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.

Needs must when the devil drives.

If that's the only starship you can afford, that's the one you buy, or you go without.

So you buy it, and hope to earn enough to buy a better one next time, or learn enough to build one of your own.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:56 am 
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rwstyles wrote:
This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.


Or humans buying a ship from 10-foot hydrogen balloons.

If the tech is better, you'll deal with the extra headroom.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:29 am 
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Zeus67 wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
The helm cat is showing humility. The shiplord has shown nothing but hubris.


He is probably the typical bully. He got in for the adventure and to kick other people without any danger to himself and now that he finds himself facing truly dangerous enemies... Well, he probably wishes he is somewhere else.


I know his kind. They don't deserve mercy.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:47 pm 
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rwstyles wrote:
This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.


Or buying a used warship that once belonged to xenophobic, psychotic, walking talking koala bears?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:53 pm 
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The CAPTAIN is not the one cowering next to the helm. That's the pilot. The captain is grey not brown and had an actual platform rather than a footstool.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:07 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
rwstyles wrote:
This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.


Or humans buying a ship from 10-foot hydrogen balloons.

If the tech is better, you'll deal with the extra headroom.


Case in point.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Can this captain get any more oblivious? We should have guessed the origin of this ship. The trophy was a clue.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:56 am 
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Barmaglot wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
rwstyles wrote:
This would be like humans buying a used spaceship built by beings 10 feet tall.


Or humans buying a ship from 10-foot hydrogen balloons.

If the tech is better, you'll deal with the extra headroom.


Case in point.

It's stated there, though, that it's surprising that the original design was "doubled-down" on - meaning that while it's not considered unusual to purchase a second-hand ship that was designed for use by a species with very different ergonomic needs, the normal expectations are for the new owner to refit the internal structure to make it better-suited for their own species and that the immediate assumption on seeing someone put in workarounds instead is that it's because they couldn't do a refit.

The engineering for this ship is wrong at a level that ought to be relatively plug-and-play in terms of a refit. Sure, maybe helms columns need to be set up a specific way - but I don't really believe that you couldn't go out and buy an off-the-shelf nav station, or that a professionally-done refit wouldn't be pretty cheap if you offered to trade the old equipment for a discount on the new stuff.

Which means that yes, the trophy was a clue. And my theory that the Toughs might try and go "Hey, we caught some pirates" is looking more solid than I'd assumed it would be: this ship doesn't have a hull that can't be cut through; and as arrogant as the shiplord is acting, the first thing he'd do on taking possession of a Fob'ottor vessel that he had legal claim to would be to refit it to his species preferences - the helmcat wouldn't be dealing with a workstation that's not only too tall but requires a second set of hands to work properly.
So. This is, at best, a stolen vessel. Quite possibly, it's a mobile crime scene/gravesite. And given that the crew is running under the claim of being in-system militia, it doesn't seem likely that they'd have stepped foot outside the system. Which means that having this ship is a few kinds of illegal even here, considering piracy is generally loathed by civilized systems.

grahamf wrote:
I wonder if they are going to offer to retrofit the ship (and maybe give the crew a chart). The captain is showing some hubris and maybe is open to negotiations.

Considering that the shiplord is looking more and more like he's actually just a pirate that someone's given a figleaf of legitimacy to (and not even a marque to make him a proper privateer, he's militia - which to me (and I think to the Toughs) means "potentially crazy wingnut who may or may not actually have legal authority to be doing what they're up to"), I really don't think the crew's going to be allowed to keep the ship. The crew's probably going to be considering themselves lucky if they get to keep anything; now that it's obvious that this is a stolen (probably looted) ship. the shiplord and his crew are a massive political embarrassment for whoever's been giving them that fig leaf to work with - and there's absolutely no benefit I can see to trying to protect them when it's so much easier to go "whoops, we need to screen our militias more carefully! thanks for catching these pirates for us!" and throw them under the bus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Unless the prevailing political/cultural climate is firmly against those "durn foreigners". Then the Toughs will be seen as foreign aggressors and the local military will be obligated to defend the shiplord and hos prize.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:01 pm 
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macnut wrote:
Unless the prevailing political/cultural climate is firmly against those "durn foreigners". Then the Toughs will be seen as foreign aggressors and the local military will be obligated to defend the shiplord and hos prize.


I agree. The authorities will be more like: "One of our good ol' boys done got caught with his paws in the cookie jar so we must save him and kill the strangers that did that."

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Zeus67 wrote:
macnut wrote:
Unless the prevailing political/cultural climate is firmly against those "durn foreigners". Then the Toughs will be seen as foreign aggressors and the local military will be obligated to defend the shiplord and hos prize.


I agree. The authorities will be more like: "One of our good ol' boys done got caught with his paws in the cookie jar so we must save him and kill the strangers that did that."

Couldn't Peri contact her embassy, tell them what happened, and escalate this murder and defilation to a political incident?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Yes, starting a war between two foreign polities is exactly the best way to preserve the most amount of lives like the Toughs are currently supposed to be doing.

Wait no, it's not. Frankly the best thing to do is to get cindertwin in here and teraport the entire mess out, and then leave as soon as possible.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Bringing one of Chinook's World-Movers into this situation won't solve the problem. It's now known that they're enormous teraport cages that are effectively impossible to jam with current means, and the arrival of one would be viewed with a great deal of suspicion, if not outright hostility.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Bringing one of Chinook's World-Movers into this situation won't solve the problem. It's now known that they're enormous teraport cages that are effectively impossible to jam with current means, and the arrival of one would be viewed with a great deal of suspicion, if not outright hostility.

Considering how they have reacted to the Toughs so far, I doubt they got the memo on the Cinder twins.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:21 pm 
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If by "they" you mean the group of miscreants posing as a militia, then yes, it wouldn't matter. I'm thinking about how the local *government* might react.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Pencil-Crayon_Phoenix wrote:
Barmaglot wrote:
JohnSmith wrote:
Or humans buying a ship from 10-foot hydrogen balloons.

If the tech is better, you'll deal with the extra headroom.


Case in point.

It's stated there, though, that it's surprising that the original design was "doubled-down" on - meaning that while it's not considered unusual to purchase a second-hand ship that was designed for use by a species with very different ergonomic needs, the normal expectations are for the new owner to refit the internal structure to make it better-suited for their own species and that the immediate assumption on seeing someone put in workarounds instead is that it's because they couldn't do a refit.

The engineering for this ship is wrong at a level that ought to be relatively plug-and-play in terms of a refit. Sure, maybe helms columns need to be set up a specific way - but I don't really believe that you couldn't go out and buy an off-the-shelf nav station, or that a professionally-done refit wouldn't be pretty cheap if you offered to trade the old equipment for a discount on the new stuff.

Which means that yes, the trophy was a clue. And my theory that the Toughs might try and go "Hey, we caught some pirates" is looking more solid than I'd assumed it would be: this ship doesn't have a hull that can't be cut through; and as arrogant as the shiplord is acting, the first thing he'd do on taking possession of a Fob'ottor vessel that he had legal claim to would be to refit it to his species preferences - the helmcat wouldn't be dealing with a workstation that's not only too tall but requires a second set of hands to work properly.
So. This is, at best, a stolen vessel. Quite possibly, it's a mobile crime scene/gravesite. And given that the crew is running under the claim of being in-system militia, it doesn't seem likely that they'd have stepped foot outside the system. Which means that having this ship is a few kinds of illegal even here, considering piracy is generally loathed by civilized systems.

grahamf wrote:
I wonder if they are going to offer to retrofit the ship (and maybe give the crew a chart). The captain is showing some hubris and maybe is open to negotiations.

Considering that the shiplord is looking more and more like he's actually just a pirate that someone's given a figleaf of legitimacy to (and not even a marque to make him a proper privateer, he's militia - which to me (and I think to the Toughs) means "potentially crazy wingnut who may or may not actually have legal authority to be doing what they're up to"), I really don't think the crew's going to be allowed to keep the ship. The crew's probably going to be considering themselves lucky if they get to keep anything; now that it's obvious that this is a stolen (probably looted) ship. the shiplord and his crew are a massive political embarrassment for whoever's been giving them that fig leaf to work with - and there's absolutely no benefit I can see to trying to protect them when it's so much easier to go "whoops, we need to screen our militias more carefully! thanks for catching these pirates for us!" and throw them under the bus.


As others already stated or implied, you underestimate oppressive regimes' ability to find such militia useful. It is actually standard practice for regime of any colour to prop up such groups, as a way to suppress reactionary sentiment: why get your own hands dirty by dispersing protests and such, if you can get loyal "patriots" to do it for you? Actually, such voluntary militias are actually better at it than military and police proper.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:25 am 
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M[i]ech wrote:
. . . As others already stated or implied, you underestimate oppressive regimes' ability to find such militia useful. It is actually standard practice for regime of any colour to prop up such groups, as a way to suppress reactionary sentiment: why get your own hands dirty by dispersing protests and such, if you can get loyal "patriots" to do it for you? Actually, such voluntary militias are actually better at it than military and police proper.

If you don't care about the collateral damage . . . which, of course, most despotic regimes don't.

OTOH, the militia can also decide that they could run the nation better than the current encumbrances-in-office . . .

Gripping hand, the militias can conduct a brisk little war among themselves while ignoring the "central" "government" . . .

--FreeFlier


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