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2017-11-29: Asking for it.
http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=21080
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Author:  Reaver225 [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Grashtel wrote:
Remember the whole situation. The Shiplord has just attempted to murder the Toughs because they are coming to provide life saving medical attention to a group that he hates and has demonstrated himself to be a xenophobic, arrogant, and egotistical bully. He is very far from being the good guy here, plus I think its quite clear that Peri does not have an unbiased view on Clan Mother Sira Tetlumbrathi's character based on the reading of her Tlumnph, I would be very surprised if it doesn't at the very least focus on her good qualities while glossing over her bad ones, if not outright ignoring them.


The thing is, that's also part of it. Yes, the shiplord is a xenophobic, arrogant, egostistical bully and the Toughs, the protagonists, are going on a freelance rescue mission to nobly save a group desperately in need and saving.

But that's the sort of manner political spiels start in, by painting the other side that one wishes to sway people against as stupid, foolish, violent and the side one should support as the good side - noble, well intentioned, honourable, powerful and able to do feats of wonder that show that nasty evil side what's what.

Or to put it another way, had it been a group of illegal immigrants who have immunity to the law due to weak-willed politicians tossing out abused aid workers from airlocks after having their organs removed that the Toughs can defeat with high technology and daring and aplomb, it would look equally bad from the point of view of using the comic as a political soapbox.

Ahh, probably just me being too sensitized from moderating work. I'll not post further on this tangent.

Author:  JohnSmith [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Reality is always grey. Stories sometimes are. Sometimes they are black and white... and sometimes they seem black and white, so you can do a later twist. Storytelling is like that.

Author:  grahamf [ Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Except the fictional politics are very relevant to the story right now.

Author:  John Dallman [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Arcanestomper wrote:
I mean obviously Peri's feeling are true, but we have no further information on what actually happened. And if you found out someone apparently fairly respected in your species died at the hands of aliens a bit of outrage can be expected.

I think the overall outcome may be "Peri is not mercenary enough to be a career mercenary."

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

John Dallman wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
I mean obviously Peri's feeling are true, but we have no further information on what actually happened. And if you found out someone apparently fairly respected in your species died at the hands of aliens a bit of outrage can be expected.

I think the overall outcome may be "Peri is not mercenary enough to be a career mercenary."


Which honestly would not be too surprising. She came from Sanctum Adroit, which is regarded as the most noble of mercenary companies.

Author:  M[i]ech [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

evileeyore wrote:
Yeah, Reaver, it's pingin all my radar's too... but... I'm extending trust that this won;t go that way completely.

And if it does? C'est la vie. Howard has been an excellent author and it won't impair my enjoyment... unless he goes full on frothing-at-the-mouth-screeching-liberal-Marxist on us, and with his love of MOAR DAKKA and a lot of frankly, shockingly Libertarian ideals displayed so far... I really doubt he's going that route.


Libertarian ideals? Where?
Closest to what libertarian state would become is UNS, and it's consistently painted as dystopian. Description of political system, and all the estates, from years ago was enough to make my hair raise.

Best place to live, PD space, is (as in most comfortable and safest) is an enlightened absolute autocracy.

We don't know enough about system used in Can Full of Sky to know exactly what they are using there, but considering that they are operating in "post scarcity" mode while resources last, I don't think we can fit any real or theorised economic model to them.

Author:  grahamf [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

M[i]ech wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Yeah, Reaver, it's pingin all my radar's too... but... I'm extending trust that this won;t go that way completely.

And if it does? C'est la vie. Howard has been an excellent author and it won't impair my enjoyment... unless he goes full on frothing-at-the-mouth-screeching-liberal-Marxist on us, and with his love of MOAR DAKKA and a lot of frankly, shockingly Libertarian ideals displayed so far... I really doubt he's going that route.


Libertarian ideals? Where?
Closest to what libertarian state would become is UNS, and it's consistently painted as dystopian. Description of political system, and all the estates, from years ago was enough to make my hair raise.

Best place to live, PD space, is (as in most comfortable and safest) is an enlightened absolute autocracy.

We don't know enough about system used in Can Full of Sky to know exactly what they are using there, but considering that they are operating in "post scarcity" mode while resources last, I don't think we can fit any real or theorised economic model to them.

Wouldn't both PD space and Eine-Muh Eine-Mäh be autocracies since they are controller by their respective AIs?

PD space might technically be a technocracy as "Petey" is really a hivd mind of disgineous AIs working together.

Author:  M[i]ech [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

grahamf wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Yeah, Reaver, it's pingin all my radar's too... but... I'm extending trust that this won;t go that way completely.

And if it does? C'est la vie. Howard has been an excellent author and it won't impair my enjoyment... unless he goes full on frothing-at-the-mouth-screeching-liberal-Marxist on us, and with his love of MOAR DAKKA and a lot of frankly, shockingly Libertarian ideals displayed so far... I really doubt he's going that route.


Libertarian ideals? Where?
Closest to what libertarian state would become is UNS, and it's consistently painted as dystopian. Description of political system, and all the estates, from years ago was enough to make my hair raise.

Best place to live, PD space, is (as in most comfortable and safest) is an enlightened absolute autocracy.

We don't know enough about system used in Can Full of Sky to know exactly what they are using there, but considering that they are operating in "post scarcity" mode while resources last, I don't think we can fit any real or theorised economic model to them.

Wouldn't both PD space and Eine-Muh Eine-Mäh be autocracies since they are controller by their respective AIs?

PD space might technically be a technocracy as "Petey" is really a hivd mind of disgineous AIs working together.


Chinook doesn't rule Eina-afa, both legislation and judiciary lie outside of her sphere of competence. She only has parts of executive branch, like military, under her direct command, but even law enforcement has been outsourced away from her.

Oh, don't get me wrong, she could turn it into proper autocracy in a blink of an eye, she has technical means for that, but the way it is, she is more of a chief janitor than ruler.

Author:  FreeFlier [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

M[i}ech wrote:
. . . . Oh, don't get me wrong, she could turn it into proper autocracy in a blink of an eye, she has technical means for that, but the way it is, she is more of a chief janitor than ruler.

I was going to suggest Chief Administrator because she has more than just janitorial, but due to mission creep in Administration, that implies more than she seems to have . . . Perhaps Chief of Physical Plant would be closer.

--FreeFlier

Author:  JohnSmith [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

She's claimed her title many times guys. She's the god of wind, earth and plumbing. The world literally spins at her whim.

Administrator, janitor, ruler... none of them fit her position as well as god.

Author:  grahamf [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

M[i]ech wrote:
grahamf wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
Libertarian ideals? Where?
Closest to what libertarian state would become is UNS, and it's consistently painted as dystopian. Description of political system, and all the estates, from years ago was enough to make my hair raise.

Best place to live, PD space, is (as in most comfortable and safest) is an enlightened absolute autocracy.

We don't know enough about system used in Can Full of Sky to know exactly what they are using there, but considering that they are operating in "post scarcity" mode while resources last, I don't think we can fit any real or theorised economic model to them.

Wouldn't both PD space and Eine-Muh Eine-Mäh be autocracies since they are controller by their respective AIs?

PD space might technically be a technocracy as "Petey" is really a hivd mind of disgineous AIs working together.


Chinook doesn't rule Eina-afa, both legislation and judiciary lie outside of her sphere of competence. She only has parts of executive branch, like military, under her direct command, but even law enforcement has been outsourced away from her.

Oh, don't get me wrong, she could turn it into proper autocracy in a blink of an eye, she has technical means for that, but the way it is, she is more of a chief janitor than ruler.

...That sounds suspicously like the role of monarch here in Canada. The Governer-general technically holds the same roles Chinook has the authority to, though Chinook holds several other titles related to the day-to-day operations of the facilities, ecosystems, network, etc. But on a legal basis she definatly takes the role of Monarch. Even control over the millitary, though here that's mostly so ther Queen can't be forceably removed.

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Her official title is Operations Chief according to the RPG.

Author:  grahamf [ Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

Operations Chief from a legal standpoint seems to be very similar to the Canadian monarch role according to Wikipedia. Playing the role of Operation's Chief includes all duties of the role of monarch, but the role of monarch is only a small section. If she declared herself Queen that would be true. Goddess is more accurate though, and allows her to deputize the role of Queen to someone else if she wished.

Author:  JoseBelt [ Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017-11-29: Asking for it.

With all this talking about real-life parallels and real-life politics going on... You know...

If anything, this story reminds me more of the situation in 1853 with Japan being completely closed to foreigners (except for a tiny outpost where only Dutch merchants were allowed) and Commodore Perry arriving with the "Black Ships" and forcing the Japanese government to open the country up for trade.

With Uuple being the Schlock Mercenary equivalent of Japan, and Tagon of Commodore Perry.

Japan went through a lot of very serious upheavals after that, which ended up completely re-formatting the political structure of the country. I think that, at the end of all this, Uuple might end up going through something similar.

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