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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:02 am 
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This does not look good. If Kevyn was on that ship, they might need to make a new one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:53 am 
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I can only assume it's going to take out another Toughs ship, the ship all the bodies are being gathered on, or the field of corpses.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:37 pm 
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I wonder if Kevyn's backup will include his argument/apology with Elf.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:07 pm 
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I now wonder if whomever is doing this is targeting people with laz-5 backups for some reason. Is it part of an attack on the laz archives? Is is an attempt to keep "dangerous" knowledge from spreading/getting picked up in the next laz archiving? (Someone learns something the shooter wants hidden and the shooter blows up the general area?)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:07 pm 
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I didn't think that looked very survivable, and today's strip confirms that there no survivors.

How many times has Kevyn died now? Six? And this time they'll have to restore him from back-up.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:36 pm 
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DrCron wrote:
I now wonder if whomever is doing this is targeting people with laz-5 backups for some reason. Is it part of an attack on the laz archives? Is is an attempt to keep "dangerous" knowledge from spreading/getting picked up in the next laz archiving? (Someone learns something the shooter wants hidden and the shooter blows up the general area?)


Probably just a coincidence. anyone rich enough to own a major spaceship is probably also rich enough to pay for laz-5 data storage of the crew.

besides, we don't know if the pscho-bear warship had laz-5 backups of it's crew, and most of the refinery workers apparently didn't


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Bleh.

I dunno. I just can't find this whole thing narrative satisfying. It's not like Kevyn hasn't died before (never mind all the OTHER people on the ship), but this time just seems... well, unsatisfying.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:29 pm 
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JohnSmith wrote:
Bleh.

I dunno. I just can't find this whole thing narrative satisfying. It's not like Kevyn hasn't died before (never mind all the OTHER people on the ship), but this time just seems... well, unsatisfying.

It does . . .

Which makes me wonder what we don't know yet.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:43 pm 
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We've seen Kevyn's new toehold cage, maybe that was an empty ship that got destroyed?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:47 pm 
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DancesWithBikers wrote:
We've seen Kevyn's new toehold cage, maybe that was an empty ship that got destroyed?


That would require him to have detected the incoming shot in time to evacuate.

Not impossible, we've seen that wormholes can be detected before. But not on the timescale required for evacuation. So if Kevyn managed to do it, then he's gotten a long step closer to solving the long gun problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Well, if you built the whole thing as a terraport cage, with a known-safe landing pad... I suppose you could bail out your crew as soon as the computer detected a long gun shot? As fast as fusing plasma going through your ship is, computers ARE faster.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:06 am 
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JohnSmith wrote:
As fast as fusing plasma going through your ship is, computers ARE faster.


I do believe that long gun shots are supposed to be travelling at near c velocities, so no, computers won't be faster. Not to mention that teraporting actually takes a while. Early teraports took seconds, and later ones were not described to be that much faster.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:57 am 
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We also don't know the time difference between the AI tea party realizing the danger and the strike on Maxim 39. A couple of minutes warning and they could have made the evac.

I want to see a pile of Toughs moaning about the fast exit, I hope I will. Part of me is already accepting it might not.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:03 am 
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Survivor-free would probably suggest not, but one can hope.

Still, restoring from backup is better than jumping back in time with the core generator.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:50 am 
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Hi folks! I've spent a long time reading Schlock (and this forum), but this is my first time commenting:

The first thing I'd like to say: The instantaneous obliteration of Kevyn's new ship - that's just a little earth-shaking...
"Survivor free" sounds pretty grim too - though (stretching a bit), it may refer to the state of the ship alone, sans crew... Nah - that sounds more like my wishful thinking, really.

Well, as he was in the brig of Maxim 39, I suppose this is one way for Shiplord Srabben to avoid trial...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Now that I'm thinking about it, what happened to Ennesby? From the Eina-Afa arc, we know that he doesn't seem to make a point of keeping back-ups, and I haven't heard anything about him changing that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Now that I'm thinking about it, what happened to Ennesby? From the Eina-Afa arc, we know that he doesn't seem to make a point of keeping back-ups, and I haven't heard anything about him changing that.


Well the company has gotten Red-Reo since then. Even if he didn't before it would be weird if Ennesby didn't start making regular back ups when the rest of the Toughs did. He's lost ships before and serves in a mercenary company. It seems like something he would do.

Though if Ennesby actually died permanently so abruptly. Well that would hit pretty hard. Fortunately we should get an answer to who had backups and who didn't pretty quickly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:56 pm 
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DancesWithBikers wrote:
We've seen Kevyn's new toehold cage, maybe that was an empty ship that got destroyed?


If that were the case, then it would explain why everyone comes through the toehold at 15 m/s. You've got dozens of people to move through as quickly as possible, so give them a heavy "shove" on the other end, to get them clear for the next one *right* behind them.

We'll see.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 pm 
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0z79 wrote:
DancesWithBikers wrote:
We've seen Kevyn's new toehold cage, maybe that was an empty ship that got destroyed?


If that were the case, then it would explain why everyone comes through the toehold at 15 m/s. You've got dozens of people to move through as quickly as possible, so give them a heavy "shove" on the other end, to get them clear for the next one *right* behind them.

We'll see.


Indeed, that takes Elf's messing about from "are you on stimmies again?" to "The plot requires an entire ship's crew to fit through this door in sixty seconds or less, and people will call it an asspull if I don't talk about it before it's plot relevant."

So, doing stupid things for plot, rather than characterization.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Nemoricus wrote:
Now that I'm thinking about it, what happened to Ennesby? From the Eina-Afa arc, we know that he doesn't seem to make a point of keeping back-ups, and I haven't heard anything about him changing that.


Well the company has gotten Red-Reo since then. Even if he didn't before it would be weird if Ennesby didn't start making regular back ups when the rest of the Toughs did. He's lost ships before and serves in a mercenary company. It seems like something he would do.

Though if Ennesby actually died permanently so abruptly. Well that would hit pretty hard. Fortunately we should get an answer to who had backups and who didn't pretty quickly.


Loss of Ennesby would be terrible. I like is puns.

Ceterum censeo Uuplem delendam esse. They think that using emotes/emoji/whateveryoucallit in official mail is a good idea. They can not be saved any more, corruption runs too deep through their society.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Seems to me that to prevent a long gun shot from being effective, it needs to be forced outside the surface of the target (or at least directed to past the target).

What if the surface of a ship or say the important parts were protected by an operating t-cage door?
The plasma would pass in the door and out the other side?
This would mean that any targeting info necessary for an effective shot inside the "shield" would have to be up to the micro second.

Since a long gun shot needs several moments (time to be determined) to be energized and placed, the locus of the exiting terminal would not have time to form and release plasma.
Not only that, the resulting plasma stream could be directed someplace else (back at the shooter perhaps)?

Did I miss something?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Oh
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-01-10
Foreshadowing?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:35 am 
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Mechanic wrote:
Seems to me that to prevent a long gun shot from being effective, it needs to be forced outside the surface of the target (or at least directed to past the target).

What if the surface of a ship or say the important parts were protected by an operating t-cage door?
The plasma would pass in the door and out the other side?
This would mean that any targeting info necessary for an effective shot inside the "shield" would have to be up to the micro second.

Since a long gun shot needs several moments (time to be determined) to be energized and placed, the locus of the exiting terminal would not have time to form and release plasma.
Not only that, the resulting plasma stream could be directed someplace else (back at the shooter perhaps)?

Did I miss something?


The problem seems to be that the long gun can fire anywhere inside the ship, and pretty much anywhere it hits will cause catastrophic damage since ships aren't designed to have the equivalent of a nuke go off inside them.

So for a teraport defense to work you would need to detect where the long gun wormhole was opening and open your own wormholes right there. That means that you basically need a long gun of your own except worse because your long gun has to open its firing portal an arbitrary location in your ship. And opening a wormhole is the hardest part of the process, and from what we've seen requires a massive array of spinning annie plants.

Alternatively if you could move the destination portal of an incoming long gun shot, then you could redirect it into your own portal, or just outside your ship. This seems like the best bet since we know wormholes can be shut down if you put enough power into it. The only problem is detecting the long gun shot in time, and putting enough power into it. Since you need at least as much power as the shooter is putting in.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:39 am 
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Nobody is asking the relevant question, which is: how is the perp getting their targeting information? They have to either have an observation node in each of these systems, or...

the other relevant question is, why these targets?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Good point.
How are they getting targeting info?

Also, Aren't there some hidden ships that EINA-AFA referred to here?
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2017-10-15


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Targeting info is fairly easy - hypernodes seem to generally report their physical location. At least, we've seen (many times) people get tracked down due to their hypernode communications, even if they were hiding in more-or-less random locations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:54 pm 
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I suspect the simple answer is to random-walk the ships, so visual targeting information is too out of date to do such damage by the time it's available.
And only talk through blind proxies. Passing location information only to those you trust.
Planets, and other fixed facilities, are still dead in the water, however.

If you sit still, or stick to a single, predictable, vector, (see sitting still,) you're an easy target.
You need to change course, and move both linearly and laterally by more than the length of your ship, (relative to your previous vector), in the time it takes targeting data to go from observer to gunner.
So, if the observer is a light-second away, and communicating at FTL speeds, you need to have a course adjustment at least every second. One that has no part of your ship overlapping where it would have been, if you hadn't changed course, one second later.

Against missiles, random walking is only somewhat effective, as the missiles are probably (a lot) more agile, and can chase you down. Against artillery of this sort, random walking would seem to be THE defense.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:23 pm 
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FrankNorman wrote:
This does not look good. If Kevyn was on that ship, they might need to make a new one.

Well of course they have to make a new ship. It was blown up...


What?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Sean wrote:
I suspect the simple answer is to random-walk the ships, so visual targeting information is too out of date to do such damage by the time it's available.
And only talk through blind proxies. Passing location information only to those you trust.
Planets, and other fixed facilities, are still dead in the water, however.

If you sit still, or stick to a single, predictable, vector, (see sitting still,) you're an easy target.
You need to change course, and move both linearly and laterally by more than the length of your ship, (relative to your previous vector), in the time it takes targeting data to go from observer to gunner.
So, if the observer is a light-second away, and communicating at FTL speeds, you need to have a course adjustment at least every second. One that has no part of your ship overlapping where it would have been, if you hadn't changed course, one second later.

Against missiles, random walking is only somewhat effective, as the missiles are probably (a lot) more agile, and can chase you down. Against artillery of this sort, random walking would seem to be THE defense.

An observer with a hypernode is cheap, see the VDA. So you need to TAD the entire area out to your one-light second radius to have any chance of one light-second targetting delay. And then you need to kill EVERY possible observer (including both even cheaper systems that lacks the warhead of a VDA node and more expensive ones that have warship type shielding) that enters your one-light second radius.

Which means you need a fleet of warships on picket duty at 1 light-second out from any target, and a warship is itself a target....

Whoops.

You have to jump to someplace no one knows about and go BLACK. Because anyone running blind proxies is a weakness in your defense. The proxies are either highly capable of defending themselves and keeping anyone out of detection range where they can pick up incoming and outgoing signals (AKA the proxies are themselves high value targets) or they are simply a trail of breadcrumbs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:22 pm 
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That's pretty much why long guns are so feared. If they were limited to light speed targeting then yes you could go evasive and do pretty good. But since FTL communications are a thing targeting information is much easier to acquire and defeating that targeting information becomes a whole different level of difficult.


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