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 Post subject: 2018-02-16: Turntables
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Well, I guess Kaff is outgunned again. I hope he won't have to carry nukes personally this time, though.
I suppose cats will try to force CC away and capture "Admiral" Peri as bargaining chip.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:29 pm 
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And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


The Toughs started shooting immediately after receiving the first message. Even if the next message had been immediate it would have been escalated by then.

By that point it was the Uuplechan who were mad at the Toughs.

Honestly the smart thing for Tagon to do is just take the Cynthetic Certainty straight out of the system. He doesn't need to fight the entire navy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


The Toughs started shooting immediately after receiving the first message. Even if the next message had been immediate it would have been escalated by then.

By that point it was the Uuplechan who were mad at the Toughs.

Honestly the smart thing for Tagon to do is just take the Cynthetic Certainty straight out of the system. He doesn't need to fight the entire navy.

but that wouldn't be fun, would it?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:07 am 
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Problem is if they flee they'll probably have to abandon the corpse retrieval and lose their leads on whatever someone was shooting them in the head about. And it seems an unlikely coincidence for them to be targeted by a long gun and also have a completely unrelated person shoot the corpses in the head, so either this attack was more than just bait or the local spotter got caught. Leaning towards the latter, since it seems pretty amaturish for a long gun controller.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:14 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


The Toughs started shooting immediately after receiving the first message. Even if the next message had been immediate it would have been escalated by then.

By that point it was the Uuplechan who were mad at the Toughs.

Honestly the smart thing for Tagon to do is just take the Cynthetic Certainty straight out of the system. He doesn't need to fight the entire navy.


Not immediately, there was enough time for a fast 'that wasn't us' to be sent by the Cats and received before the Toughs started firing. The toughs took time to read and react to the message before the shooting started, unless Iafa started firing immediately, which would be bad for several reasons.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:24 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


The Toughs started shooting immediately after receiving the first message. Even if the next message had been immediate it would have been escalated by then.

By that point it was the Uuplechan who were mad at the Toughs.

Honestly the smart thing for Tagon to do is just take the Cynthetic Certainty straight out of the system. He doesn't need to fight the entire navy.


Not immediately, there was enough time for a fast 'that wasn't us' to be sent by the Cats and received before the Toughs started firing. The toughs took time to read and react to the message before the shooting started, unless Iafa started firing immediately, which would be bad for several reasons.

They were probably still discussing which emoji to use.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:35 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
And to think this could have been avoided if the cats had sent an immediate three word message after they found out about Maxim 39:

"That wasn't us."

Perhaps followed by a slightly longer "please don't be mad at us, it really wasn't us we only found out after we sent that original message."


The Toughs started shooting immediately after receiving the first message. Even if the next message had been immediate it would have been escalated by then.

By that point it was the Uuplechan who were mad at the Toughs.

Honestly the smart thing for Tagon to do is just take the Cynthetic Certainty straight out of the system. He doesn't need to fight the entire navy.


Not immediately, there was enough time for a fast 'that wasn't us' to be sent by the Cats and received before the Toughs started firing. The toughs took time to read and react to the message before the shooting started, unless Iafa started firing immediately, which would be bad for several reasons.


We know that Iafa didn't start shooting until ordered to. After Murtaugh ordered random walk, Iafa pointed out that it may well be completely ineffective. Murtaugh's reply that it makes her feel better prompted Iafa to sarcastically remark that by metric of doing for sake of doing she (?) should start shooting stuff too. Furthermore, Iafa didn't seem pleased when order to open fire was issued.

I agree that cats did have enough time to send quick "that wasn't us". If Karl would believe that or not is different matter.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Hopefully rational heads prevail. With luck, the "picking a fight" they're talking about was just the drone-swatting. Expensive, angering, but not something that requires it escalate if everybody talks for three seconds before the shooting starts in earnest.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Just watch, it'll only get worse when one of the Uuplechan ships blows up next.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Fishman wrote:
Just watch, it'll only get worse when one of the Uuplechan ships blows up next.


I mean honestly if one of the Uuplechan ships blows up it would be obvious that a third party is at work here, and they should start working together.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Fishman wrote:
Just watch, it'll only get worse when one of the Uuplechan ships blows up next.


I mean honestly if one of the Uuplechan ships blows up it would be obvious that a third party is at work here, and they should start working together.


If the toughs have access to a long gun, that would solve one problem. At this point, we don't know whether or not long guns are really untraceable. They would certainly be untraceable if unused. The threat to destroy all long guns makes it sound like they are traceable in theory if fired.

Not that they can't move afterwards.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:02 pm 
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If long guns aren't traceable, then why have all long guns seen so far been on ships or ship-like vehicles that can teraport? That long guns are mobile suggests they can be tracked after they fire, and that teraporting or otherwise changing location is a good tactic for any freshly-fired long gun.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:21 pm 
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I think we've seen three long guns, if you count Chinooks fleet as "one".
There is LOTA, which ACQUIRED teraport technology, but wasn't built with it, initially. In fact, it was the details of that system that led Pi to deduce what Credomar was. It was too big for the gates, in a system that lacked anything worth protecting, or destroying.
There is the one that was hidden in Jupiter.
Then there is the fleet of Chinooks.

BUT. We've also seen how easy it is to retrofit any suitably small object for teraport capability.

Both Sword class and Tricorn class ships have been retrofitted, quite successfully, with teraport capability.

It's not necessary that the shots themselves be traceable, just that there is a non-zero chance that the facility will be located by some means. Spies are some means. A decent analogy might be made to modern nuclear missile subs. They can be anywhere when they are ordered to fire, so you can't preemptively take out those silos. No years of espionage will net you anything that could produce a firing plan.

Mind you, I'm not saying the shots AREN'T traceable, just that what we do know thus far doesn't require that they BE traceable.
For all I know, the very next strip could be someone solving the problem of how to back-trace a shot so as to deliver a return shot. Or, it could be a problem that never gets resolved.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:16 pm 
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I think the shots aren't traceable as of right now. Because none of the AIs suggested tracing them to see who was shooting, and they had access to at least one long gun target site.

This actually makes Chinook's rampage worse. She isn't just going to surgically strike at opposing longs guns. She's literally going to have to take over the galaxy to ensure she finds them all.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
She's literally going to have to take over the galaxy to ensure she finds them all.


Except that it ensures nothing. Sheer volume of empty space available makes guerilla warfare with long guns exceedingly easy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Which is what makes this into another endwar. She can't win, but she can make everybody die.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:36 am 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
She's literally going to have to take over the galaxy to ensure she finds them all.


Except that it ensures nothing. Sheer volume of empty space available makes guerilla warfare with long guns exceedingly easy.


I didn't say how long it was going to take. Clearly she has to take control of the galaxy and the use all of it's resources to continuously produce probes and weapons to find and eradicate any long guns for as long as it takes to ensure she gets all of them.

Which since she can never be absolutely certain means she is setting herself up to become the eternal empress of the galaxy in which nothing else lives, because someone else could eventually make a long gun. Remember Chinook is not thinking about this in a sane fashion anymore.

And at this point we see why Petey decided she needed to be stopped.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:11 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
And at this point we see why Petey decided she needed to be stopped.

Actually I believe she was just going to strike the two other longs guns she knew about, so an attack on Petey and LOTA.

Or she was just going to start striking other governments, because hey, why not be crazy while we're being crazy.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:44 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
And at this point we see why Petey decided she needed to be stopped.

Actually I believe she was just going to strike the two other longs guns she knew about, so an attack on Petey and LOTA.

Or she was just going to start striking other governments, because hey, why not be crazy while we're being crazy.


Chinook wanting to go full Skynet was my impression too. Except that Skynet actually had reasonable chance of succeeding.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:40 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
And at this point we see why Petey decided she needed to be stopped.

Actually I believe she was just going to strike the two other longs guns she knew about, so an attack on Petey and LOTA.

Or she was just going to start striking other governments, because hey, why not be crazy while we're being crazy.


I don't think she was quite crazy enough to think Petey was the culprit, she accused him of setting the Toughs out as bait not killing them himself. Though that would probably have been the next step in her reasoning.

Even if Petey and LOTA were her first targets though she would still have to follow the same plan. No one knows where LOTA is, and Petey presumably keeps his long gun fleet hidden as well. So taking down either one of them would have required gaining the resources to flood the galaxy with probes. Not to mention Petey has all those conventional forces she would have to fight.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
No one knows where LOTA is


Petey does, or at least he claims to.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Barmaglot wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
No one knows where LOTA is


Petey does, or at least he claims to.


LOTA is a lot dumber than his machinations would suggest if he's still in that location, or hasn't built a duplicate of Credomar, or both.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Barmaglot wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
No one knows where LOTA is


Petey does, or at least he claims to.


LOTA is a lot dumber than his machinations would suggest if he's still in that location, or hasn't built a duplicate of Credomar, or both.

I don't think Lota has the facilities to fabricate a second Credomar, and Petey can problably find Lota every time Lota decides to move Lota's gun.

Also, Lota has a thing about pronouns.

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