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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:09 pm 
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And this is why she SHOULDN'T be captain. Not yet, at any rate.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:25 pm 
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I disagree. She made a plan, accounted for as many variables as possible, stuck with it until it became untenable, and is now altering it to fit the new paradigm.

I may have my issues with Elf and her abuse of Kevyn, but that doesn't disqualify her for Captaincy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:03 pm 
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And this is why the entire 'plan' is just retarded
Look
Just shoot yourself in the head, AND BE DONE WITH IT
And Blobbo?
Find an airlock and flush
You bore me


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:15 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
I disagree. She made a plan, accounted for as many variables as possible, stuck with it until it became untenable, and is now altering it to fit the new paradigm.

I may have my issues with Elf and her abuse of Kevyn, but that doesn't disqualify her for Captaincy.

It does when the plan is stupid and was developed solely because she is currently feeling suicidal over losing Kevyn. This isn't a "plan" in the sense that she actually thought it would accomplish anything for the Toughs. She just wants to die. But she doesn't have the guts to do it herself. She wants to die "doing her duty" in some fashion so she doesn't look like a coward. So she's deliberately being stupid, hoping to get someone or something to kill her.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:20 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
I disagree. She made a plan, accounted for as many variables as possible, stuck with it until it became untenable, and is now altering it to fit the new paradigm.

I may have my issues with Elf and her abuse of Kevyn, but that doesn't disqualify her for Captaincy.


Her plan was to die. She knew full well they were probably going to kill her, and she simply wanted to slow them down having to deal with her before that happened.

That defeatism, ESPECIALLY since its born from being over emotional is what disqualifies her for captaincy.

At this point Chelle is a far better captain than Elf has proven herself to be at basically any point in the series.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:30 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Her plan was to die.

Is your disagreement with her desire to commit suicide or something else?

Quote:
That defeatism, ESPECIALLY since its born from being over emotional is what disqualifies her for captaincy.

But it was okay both times that Kaff committed suicide to save others right? Just checking to see where your lines are drawn.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:52 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
Her plan was to die.

Is your disagreement with her desire to commit suicide or something else?

Quote:
That defeatism, ESPECIALLY since its born from being over emotional is what disqualifies her for captaincy.

But it was okay both times that Kaff committed suicide to save others right? Just checking to see where your lines are drawn.

Sacrificing yourself in a way that can save others is one thing. It's not advisable, but it's a thing. Deliberately placing yourself into a position where you'll be killed when doing so serves no purpose and helps no one is something else entirely.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:24 am 
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Random Wanderer wrote:
Deliberately placing yourself into a position where you'll be killed when doing so serves no purpose and helps no one is something else entirely.

Is she allowed to be selfish? It served her purpose just fine and ham-dandy.

Also it might just have served to soften the Uuplechan legal response once the live rounds stop being exchanged and the lawyers got involved (got more involved, on both sides, not just Ennesby).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:31 am 
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But would it soften the Tough's response? They already suspected the Uuplechans of destroying the Maxim 39 as it was; if Elf turned up dead (after surrendering) she could end up being one more reason for them to seek revenge.

The fact of the matter is she is not thinking clearly, is still reeling from the death of her husband. Officers tend to get removed from command under such circumstances, and for good reason. Tagon was not grieving the loss of loved ones when he made the decisions to sacrifice himself, he was able to make a clear-headed tactical assessment of the situation and acted accordingly, controversial through those actions may have been.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Random Wanderer wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
Her plan was to die.

Is your disagreement with her desire to commit suicide or something else?

Quote:
That defeatism, ESPECIALLY since its born from being over emotional is what disqualifies her for captaincy.

But it was okay both times that Kaff committed suicide to save others right? Just checking to see where your lines are drawn.

Sacrificing yourself in a way that can save others is one thing. It's not advisable, but it's a thing. Deliberately placing yourself into a position where you'll be killed when doing so serves no purpose and helps no one is something else entirely.


Precisely! Her dying here MAYBE inconveniences the Uuples. Her story of why was just proven to be precisely that; a STORY. She surrendered because she wanted to die and is too much of a coward to shoot herself in the head. Probably because she'll be easily resurrected from that and still have to remember.

Like five minutesbefore she made this "surrender" plan she said TO TAGON to cook up a new one of her while she basically kamikaze's the government fleet.

She was ready to not only kill HERSELF but potentially everyone else, as well. I can't find the strip at the moment where she says to restore from backup to see if she said just herself or the whole team. I'll keep looking.

EDIT: here it is. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-02-17

Note how sad she looks that she doesn't get to kill herself and EVERYBODY ELSE ONBOARD.

Elf SHOULD NOT be in the command structure as an officer. I wouldn't even swap her out with Chelle, because Chelle is still a lieutenant, and that's still an Officer. Drop her to sergeant and keep her there until she's actually shown some command capability when things aren't going exactly to plan.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:15 pm 
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So going from tonight, this what it looks like when the writing has no clue


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Based on today's comic, it looks like she viewed dying as an extraction plan, not suicide.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Motortiki wrote:
Based on today's comic, it looks like she viewed dying as an extraction plan, not suicide.

Well duh. She did say "Print copies of us once everyone else is safe."

It was also to extract herself from being the one who was apologized to, knowing her husband would wake up being the one who hasn't yet (and might never) apologize.


They still haven't made the transition to being an immortal society.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:55 pm 
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She looks halfway happy in this last strip too. Messing with the UPA's plans may be somewhat therapeutic for her.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:05 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Motortiki wrote:
Based on today's comic, it looks like she viewed dying as an extraction plan, not suicide.

Well duh. She did say "Print copies of us once everyone else is safe."

It was also to extract herself from being the one who was apologized to, knowing her husband would wake up being the one who hasn't yet (and might never) apologize. . . .

Hmmm . . . can the user trigger a backup manually?

If they can, did Kevyn trigger one to make sure his epiphany was in the backup? That would be a smart thing to do.


evileeyore wrote:
. . . They still haven't made the transition to being an immortal society.

Of course they haven't . . . they haven't had time.

This may be the first . . . okay, not first, but still early, steps towards that.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:48 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Elf SHOULD NOT be in the command structure as an officer.

Why do people needlessly resort to caps lock instead of reasoned arguments?


Anyway, I'm not trying to argue that Elf is Captain material (I was more than a bit unclear on that in my earlier posts, mea culpa) but that this is not a good reason to deny her Captaincy.

Her inability to properly communicate up the chain of command makes her unfit for Captaincy....


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:01 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
Elf SHOULD NOT be in the command structure as an officer.

Why do people needlessly resort to caps lock instead of reasoned arguments?


Anyway, I'm not trying to argue that Elf is Captain material (I was more than a bit unclear on that in my earlier posts, mea culpa) but that this is not a good reason to deny her Captaincy.

Her inability to properly communicate up the chain of command makes her unfit for Captaincy....


The all caps is emphasis because I'm on a mobile system and I can't be arsed to dick with the formatting options.

As an officer she is too emotional, too reckless, alternately suicidally overconfident and defeatist, *and* she has communication and impulse control issues. Any one of those should disqualify her a place in the command structure. All together, the only reason she ever made it past sergeant is because she has seniority and the other options were Schlock and Thurl, who would quit if they promoted him one inch above his current rank.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Yes, it does seem that she is in that weird spot where she has all the technical skills (as in knowledge of weapons, tactics and so on) needed by captain but lacks... auxiliary? social? psychological? skills required to actually be good captain. She is in dire need of good second in command, however I'm afraid anyone fitting (with exception of most tactically inept), would be better off as captain himself/herself. Elf came a long way, but she isn't there yet, I presume her progress so far is what in-story colours judgement of others.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:18 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Yes, it does seem that she is in that weird spot where she has all the technical skills (as in knowledge of weapons, tactics and so on) needed by captain but lacks... auxiliary? social? psychological? skills required to actually be good captain. She is in dire need of good second in command, however I'm afraid anyone fitting (with exception of most tactically inept), would be better off as captain himself/herself. Elf came a long way, but she isn't there yet, I presume her progress so far is what in-story colours judgement of others.

The word you're looking for is called "maturity," and it is called that because it accumulates as you mature. Giver her time to figure things out, she has a lot of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:31 pm 
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One thing to remember is that she is straight up younger than all the senior officers. Even Tagon has had decades of command experience and he's the youngest of them. Elf on the other hand was a grunt only a few years ago. And on top of that the Toughs lacked a real training program or even doctrine until very recently. She should probably have gone through command school before they promoted her past lieutenant.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
One thing to remember is that she is straight up younger than all the senior officers. Even Tagon has had decades of command experience and he's the youngest of them. Elf on the other hand was a grunt only a few years ago. And on top of that the Toughs lacked a real training program or even doctrine until very recently. She should probably have gone through command school before they promoted her past lieutenant.

I think that in lieu of a training program, they attached her to Murtaugh's command in the hopes that some of her maturity would rub off on Elf.

They seem to have had mixed results.

But I don't think that makes her completely unfit as an officer, just unfit to command. And I can see why they want to push her into a command position: repeatedly, when things have reached a complete charlie foxtrot, Elf has successfully lead teams and made tough calls under high pressure. When they were captured by that pirate comes to mind, and also the events in the Sol system.

It's during the less stressful situations that she falls on her face.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:13 am 
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Motortiki wrote:
And I can see why they want to push her into a command position...

What rush? There was no rush. It's a battlefield promotion, in real life those rarely hold up beyond the battle (unless the promoted individual really did deserve a promotion anyway).


This one of course is going to hold up. Because of stupid reasons.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Fortunately for everyone, no plan survives first contact with Sergeant Schlock.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:14 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Motortiki wrote:
And I can see why they want to push her into a command position...

What rush? There was no rush. It's a battlefield promotion, in real life those rarely hold up beyond the battle (unless the promoted individual really did deserve a promotion anyway).


This one of course is going to hold up. Because of stupid reasons.


First, he said 'push' not 'rush', and second, that she was in line to be captain at all was simply a matter of 'she's the only one from before their recruiting drive on Ganjj-Rho left who wasn't an officer except Schlock and Thurl, and she has more time with the Toughs than Chelle.'

Or possibly 'she has more time sleeping with officers than Chelle'.

....okay, that's somewhat unfair, but atill, its no exaggeration to say that Elf has been everyone's pet project for years. And she still bashes her head against the idiot ball half the time because of incredibly deep seated personality issues that have only ever been given band-aid treatments.


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