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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:04 pm 
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The race is on.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Is this thread from the future? The title is two days ahead instead of one for the comic date.

I wonder if the revived bodies are actually "the enemy" or simply the result of something else going wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 5:22 am 
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Tell me this isn't another redhack.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:26 am 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Tell me this isn't another redhack.

It's highly unlikely it's another REDHACK.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:53 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
Tell me this isn't another redhack.

It's highly unlikely it's another REDHACK.


I took it as a "The RED-REO nanites have woken up and gotten to work." Neeka already determined that the deadness they're enjoying is merely a Laz 2 at most.

And recovering from a Laz 1 wasn't even remarkable before REDREO.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Daniel the Broc wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
Tell me this isn't another redhack.

It's highly unlikely it's another REDHACK.


I took it as a "The RED-REO nanites have woken up and gotten to work." Neeka already determined that the deadness they're enjoying is merely a Laz 2 at most.

And recovering from a Laz 1 wasn't even remarkable before REDREO.

They aren't SUPPOSED to wake up on their own. It means there is something wrong, the question is what. Perhaps it's possible the gunshots contained a nanite payload for a new kind of hack? That would seem to be assuming too much competence though, unless maybe there's a third party involved here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:03 pm 
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I'm going to assume that there's no particular malice or third party involved with the dead reawakening ahead of schedule. Rather, the settings on their RED-REO nannies were not properly configured, and so they set to work on their own.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:32 pm 
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sotanaht wrote:
Daniel the Broc wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
It's highly unlikely it's another REDHACK.


I took it as a "The RED-REO nanites have woken up and gotten to work." Neeka already determined that the deadness they're enjoying is merely a Laz 2 at most.

And recovering from a Laz 1 wasn't even remarkable before REDREO.

They aren't SUPPOSED to wake up on their own. It means there is something wrong, the question is what. Perhaps it's possible the gunshots contained a nanite payload for a new kind of hack? That would seem to be assuming too much competence though, unless maybe there's a third party involved here.
They weren't expected, but I don't know why it would be impossible. If it's a settings issue, then considering the political climate they may prefer to set their backups for auto-reboot.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:01 am 
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sotanaht wrote:
They aren't SUPPOSED to wake up on their own.

According to who exactly?


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:30 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
sotanaht wrote:
They aren't SUPPOSED to wake up on their own.

According to who exactly?


The fact they're dead and they should Require a resuscitation process to be begun in order to keep them from resurrecting while still in vacuum or other bad place where they'd just get dead again. The whole reason they called the Toughs was because they needed to resurrect people 'manually', and they couldn't do that in less than like, sixty years with the one doctor they had.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Kevyn was resurrected multiple times without external input. If local backup isn't compromised, there's no technical reason why dead shouldn't be able to wake up on their own. Nannies can most likely be set for manual revival to ensure professional control or something. However, I think if I had such nannies, I would want to have them set on auto revive. Considering how much nanites can do in Schlockiverse, I see little reason why they couldn't check if external conditions are "good enough" (for example, there being oxygenated atmosphere outside my body).


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:17 pm 
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"Good enough" should also include "people who killed you have left the scene" in case you were murdered. It'd be a real pain to be killed, then revived in the presence of your killers who then proceed to kill you again - maybe putting more effort into it this time, like blowing you up instead of just shooting you.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:47 pm 
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macnut wrote:
"Good enough" should also include "people who killed you have left the scene" in case you were murdered. It'd be a real pain to be killed, then revived in the presence of your killers who then proceed to kill you again - maybe putting more effort into it this time, like blowing you up instead of just shooting you.
Most people aren't combat soldiers who are going to be attacked by people wanting them dead. Most people who die will likely do so in environments where you can autorevive safely.

It'd be a real pain to die in a dangerous environment and not get up soon, like say in a damaged ship that is very slowly running out of energy, and to wake up several months later due to false positives to find out your ship has since run out of fuel and you're heading towards a star when you could have woken up in a few days instead.

Setting up conditions for revival that may get false positives is dangerous - it's almost always better to be awake and active rather than be dead.


And, don't even mention self-repairing systems - one fun idea was a bunch of crew on a colony ship all getting large parts of their brain toasted due to a neutron star, and their self repair systems kicking in - directing them towards the undamaged neurons of the colonists who were safe in cryosleep. Future zombie in action there.


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Reaver225 wrote:
macnut wrote:
"Good enough" should also include "people who killed you have left the scene" in case you were murdered. It'd be a real pain to be killed, then revived in the presence of your killers who then proceed to kill you again - maybe putting more effort into it this time, like blowing you up instead of just shooting you.
Most people aren't combat soldiers who are going to be attacked by people wanting them dead. Most people who die will likely do so in environments where you can autorevive safely.

It'd be a real pain to die in a dangerous environment and not get up soon, like say in a damaged ship that is very slowly running out of energy, and to wake up several months later due to false positives to find out your ship has since run out of fuel and you're heading towards a star when you could have woken up in a few days instead.


If you're dying on a damaged ship, it's very likely due to dangerous conditions like oxygen loss in a compartment, or a reactor leaking lethal radiation. Autoreviving in those conditions would be lethal to the revivee - no point in them reviving unless they're removed from the conditions that killed them. Same as our miners autoreviving in vacuum - quite fatal for them unless they're vacuum-adapted.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:29 pm 
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I wonder if the nannites have been advanced enough that they can tell that the lethal conditions are no longer in effect . . . I rather doubt the not-dead are cold-stored in vacuum . . .

Okay, the patient died from anoxia/decompression and hypothermia . . . they're now warm and under pressure in a sufficient oxygenated atmosphere, so they can wake up now.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:41 am 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
The fact they're dead and they should Require a resuscitation process to be begun in order to keep them from resurrecting while still in vacuum or other bad place where they'd just get dead again.

Right, ass-pull. Exactly what I thought. (Though to be fair, I'll wait on sotanaht in case they have a cite that answer my question)

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The whole reason they called the Toughs was because they needed to resurrect people 'manually', and they couldn't do that in less than like, sixty years with the one doctor they had.

To the best of their knowledge... which was the opinion of a doctor who was in the process of RTM.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:08 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
The fact they're dead and they should Require a resuscitation process to be begun in order to keep them from resurrecting while still in vacuum or other bad place where they'd just get dead again.

Right, ass-pull. Exactly what I thought. (Though to be fair, I'll wait on sotanaht in case they have a cite that answer my question)

Quote:
The whole reason they called the Toughs was because they needed to resurrect people 'manually', and they couldn't do that in less than like, sixty years with the one doctor they had.

To the best of their knowledge... which was the opinion of a doctor who was in the process of RTM.


Everyone else, INCLUDING the Tough's own doctor, was also working on that assumption, and she would appear to have been one of the people to develop the new version. She wouldn't have set Para to making the resuscitation hammocks if it was just a 'wait a few days and they'll wake up on their own' deal.

As for Kevyn, he had the original military super soldier version, not the thoroughly Un-militarized, enhanced one that's currently in use around the galaxy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:15 am 
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Binnie was up running solo. That was the militarized hacked version, of course.

But even in the case of "present danger to body and environment unlivable" dragging oneself out of an airless room into an airlock or clawing ones way out of a buried landfill is probably better than the alternative of your memories burning away with your skin or being buried forever. Autorevive is hardly the worst thing in the world. (You'd want an off switch if you were stuck in an untenanble position where you can't get out of agonising conditions permanently of course)


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Everyone else, INCLUDING the Tough's own doctor, was also working on that assumption, and she would appear to have been one of the people to develop the new version.

The 'new' version was created by Petey. Remember that Doc Bunni was still RTMing when she put Murtuagh back together.

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She wouldn't have set Para to making the resuscitation hammocks if it was just a 'wait a few days and they'll wake up on their own' deal.

I'm of the opinion that the local flavor of REDREO has a "get back up as soon as it's safe option", at least for those that don't require serious repair work before resuscitation.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:42 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that if this was supposed to happen someone would have noticed at some point during the planning. It might be that they've got a higher-end package than they're supposed to; the superintelligences seemed to think the latest-generation nanites had resolved REDhack fairly definitively, and this does not seem like a high-priority target for anyone with the capacity to prove them wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:32 pm 
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(name here) wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if this was supposed to happen someone would have noticed at some point during the planning. It might be that they've got a higher-end package than they're supposed to; the superintelligences seemed to think the latest-generation nanites had resolved REDhack fairly definitively, and this does not seem like a high-priority target for anyone with the capacity to prove them wrong.


Yeah, and even if Doc Bunny didn't know about this self-rez, they had Petey, Iafa, and Chinook on the line for this whole thing, and we KNOW that at least one of those three, possibly all three of them, had a big hand in designing the civilian RED-REO. They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
(name here) wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if this was supposed to happen someone would have noticed at some point during the planning. It might be that they've got a higher-end package than they're supposed to; the superintelligences seemed to think the latest-generation nanites had resolved REDhack fairly definitively, and this does not seem like a high-priority target for anyone with the capacity to prove them wrong.


Yeah, and even if Doc Bunny didn't know about this self-rez, they had Petey, Iafa, and Chinook on the line for this whole thing, and we KNOW that at least one of those three, possibly all three of them, had a big hand in designing the civilian RED-REO. They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'

I thought the whole point of them bringing out the big screen TV was so they could watch the shitshow without intervening, but then a ship exploded and they got involved?

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'

Sure, except as we now know the Toughs weren't being sent there to assist in the wake up process, but to make sure there was a wake up process, or at least time for the process to kick off for itself... since they are still bringing the not-quite-dead in from the cold and have already stopped them from being made completely dead.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:49 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'

Sure, except as we now know the Toughs weren't being sent there to assist in the wake up process, but to make sure there was a wake up process, or at least time for the process to kick off for itself... since they are still bringing the not-quite-dead in from the cold and have already stopped them from being made completely dead.

I'm sure someone would've warned the ground team if they weren't in the process of being dead. Or preoccupied.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:06 am 
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grahamf wrote:
I'm sure someone would've warned the ground team if they weren't in the process of being dead. Or preoccupied.

Or, as I suspect, this was one of those "Let them figure it out so it doesn't look like we had our hand in this at all" ala Petey setting up the UNS via the Reality TV Network take-down set-up sting on the Toughs convoluted plan.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:01 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:
(name here) wrote:
I'm pretty sure that if this was supposed to happen someone would have noticed at some point during the planning. It might be that they've got a higher-end package than they're supposed to; the superintelligences seemed to think the latest-generation nanites had resolved REDhack fairly definitively, and this does not seem like a high-priority target for anyone with the capacity to prove them wrong.


Yeah, and even if Doc Bunny didn't know about this self-rez, they had Petey, Iafa, and Chinook on the line for this whole thing, and we KNOW that at least one of those three, possibly all three of them, had a big hand in designing the civilian RED-REO. They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'

I thought the whole point of them bringing out the big screen TV was so they could watch the shitshow without intervening, but then a ship exploded and they got involved?



Chinook was listening in on Peri's call from her sister, who called because she needed a LOT more help than she had, which was none, and 30,000 corpsicles to defrost. Chinook asked Petey if it was something they could do. Iafa might have been consulted at some point, or not.

So far as I remember, it wasn't until the call had already been made that the Peri's sister found the accident victims that had been shot.

This was a RELIEF MISSION, not a bodyguard job. That's what made it so legally difficult. And yet, at no point did any of the AIs who had a big hand in the designing and distribution of the thing that makes this relief mission possible mention that, hey, by the way, they'll wake up on their own, which would have made this entire mission moot.

Hiring a bodyguard force has to be a LOT simpler than invoking an emergency relief/rescue clause. But it would have likely prevented them from doing any actual relief and rescue work, which is what they NEEDED at the disaster site.

....seriously, does nobody remember how all this started, or did you guys all forget everything before they pulled out the big screen? :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Kendrakirai wrote:

Yeah, and even if Doc Bunny didn't know about this self-rez, they had Petey, Iafa, and Chinook on the line for this whole thing, and we KNOW that at least one of those three, possibly all three of them, had a big hand in designing the civilian RED-REO. They would have mentioned at least in passing that 'yeah, you don't need to go there, they'll all be up on their own soon enough'

I thought the whole point of them bringing out the big screen TV was so they could watch the shitshow without intervening, but then a ship exploded and they got involved?



Chinook was listening in on Peri's call from her sister, who called because she needed a LOT more help than she had, which was none, and 30,000 corpsicles to defrost. Chinook asked Petey if it was something they could do. Iafa might have been consulted at some point, or not.

So far as I remember, it wasn't until the call had already been made that the Peri's sister found the accident victims that had been shot.

This was a RELIEF MISSION, not a bodyguard job. That's what made it so legally difficult. And yet, at no point did any of the AIs who had a big hand in the designing and distribution of the thing that makes this relief mission possible mention that, hey, by the way, they'll wake up on their own, which would have made this entire mission moot.

Hiring a bodyguard force has to be a LOT simpler than invoking an emergency relief/rescue clause. But it would have likely prevented them from doing any actual relief and rescue work, which is what they NEEDED at the disaster site.

....seriously, does nobody remember how all this started, or did you guys all forget everything before they pulled out the big screen? :)

I think the problem was speed, come to think about it. Peri's Sister's Captain mentioned that she is more than capable of doing the job alone but then Peri's Sister said that they need to hurry otherwise their skin backups would be irradiated.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:38 am 
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grahamf wrote:
I think the problem was speed, come to think about it. Peri's Sister's Captain mentioned that she is more than capable of doing the job alone but then...

It might take a few years... (by my estimate 2.28 years if Dr Gugro worked around the clock with no breaks or rest)

Quote:
...Peri's Sister said that they need to hurry otherwise their skin backups would be irradiated.

That was more about getting them inside or in the shadow of the construction platform.


Besides, I have a new theory about why people are waking up "early".


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 6:30 am 
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I'm confused. Someone has to interface with nannies to initiate the revivification process. Tarpaulin's syringe gun arm-cannon upgrade was designed to establish a link with nannies, basically moving them from "dormant" to "awaiting instructions." Then a medtech would come along, communicate with nannies, and start the revival.

If the Toughs and Viki's medical team aren't doing it, who is?

Did Para mess something up and the syringes are accidentally (or intentionally) making the nannies go active?


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:40 am 
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Rather an open question at the moment, though I'd be inclined to suspect that the nanites aren't the ones they were expecting. If the anticipated nanites could do repair without external intervention they'd not have planned to use a medtech.

I'd infer that the standard civilian model is cheap and lightweight and primarily designed to simply preserve the memories until the body can be brought to a medical facility, rather than the original militarized version's autorevive.


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