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2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters
http://zoo.nightstar.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=21180
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Author:  grahamf [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

When you try to protect them but they keep trying to kill themselves.

Author:  Zeus67 [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

grahamf wrote:
When you try to protect them but they keep trying to kill themselves.


Modus vivendi in all games with escort missions.

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

The only reasonable approach to an escort quest is to physically hold your escortees back while you kill everything remotely hostile in the area.

Author:  sotanaht [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Arcanestomper wrote:
The only reasonable approach to an escort quest is to physically hold your escortees back while you kill everything remotely hostile in the area.

Sounds more or less like what Tagon is likely to do, destroy the scrap before they get a chance to salvage it.

Author:  M[i]ech [ Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Zeus67 wrote:
grahamf wrote:
When you try to protect them but they keep trying to kill themselves.


Modus vivendi in all games with escort missions.


Don't remind me. In all the games I played, there was only one where escort missions (or rather mission, singular) didn't feel like pulling teeth.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl

Author:  Fishman [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Heh, tell me about it. In an unnamed MMO which already has content attendance problems, the developers have seen fit to waste their development budget creating yet another piece of abandoned content: An escort mission in which your escortees decide the best way to safely reach their destination is to scatter and run in all directions at the same time, a system which worked SO VERY WELL in WW2. Suffice it to say, I imagine they've created yet another smash hit: Completely abandoned by the end of the week if not sooner.

Author:  Sean [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Fishman wrote:
Heh, tell me about it. In an unnamed MMO which already has content attendance problems, the developers have seen fit to waste their development budget creating yet another piece of abandoned content: An escort mission in which your escortees decide the best way to safely reach their destination is to scatter and run in all directions at the same time, a system which worked SO VERY WELL in WW2. Suffice it to say, I imagine they've created yet another smash hit: Completely abandoned by the end of the week if not sooner.


In this day, when games are downloaded rather than purchased on CD or DVD, (or diskette...for those of us who remember those,) smashing a dud game is much more difficult, and much more expensive, than just deleting the thing from your hard drive.

Author:  sotanaht [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Fishman wrote:
Heh, tell me about it. In an unnamed MMO which already has content attendance problems, the developers have seen fit to waste their development budget creating yet another piece of abandoned content: An escort mission in which your escortees decide the best way to safely reach their destination is to scatter and run in all directions at the same time, a system which worked SO VERY WELL in WW2. Suffice it to say, I imagine they've created yet another smash hit: Completely abandoned by the end of the week if not sooner.

You said it's an MMO right? Maybe the intent is that you have to have a party to do the quest, where one or more party members splits off to escort each individual character simultainiously. Annoying, but an interesting exercise in group coordination.

Author:  grahamf [ Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

sotanaht wrote:
Fishman wrote:
Heh, tell me about it. In an unnamed MMO which already has content attendance problems, the developers have seen fit to waste their development budget creating yet another piece of abandoned content: An escort mission in which your escortees decide the best way to safely reach their destination is to scatter and run in all directions at the same time, a system which worked SO VERY WELL in WW2. Suffice it to say, I imagine they've created yet another smash hit: Completely abandoned by the end of the week if not sooner.

You said it's an MMO right? Maybe the intent is that you have to have a party to do the quest, where one or more party members splits off to escort each individual character simultainiously. Annoying, but an interesting exercise in group coordination.

Or maybe you're supposed to pay real money to get Shepard dogs to help

Author:  Fishman [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

sotanaht wrote:
You said it's an MMO right? Maybe the intent is that you have to have a party to do the quest, where one or more party members splits off to escort each individual character simultainiously. Annoying, but an interesting exercise in group coordination.

Aside from the obvious problem where a bunch of random people on the Internet is not a group, the old question remains: "How many D&D players does it take to change a lightbulb?". Answer: ALL OF THEM! NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY!

In any case, the developers in this game have demonstrated a persistent cluelessness about how games and gamers work that has spanned now years and resulted in just about every piece of content they've produced for years being completely abandoned. Not a single person playing. I don't intend to name this game because I don't actually wish to advertise it or inflict it upon anyone.

Author:  evileeyore [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Fishman wrote:
Aside from the obvious problem where a bunch of random people on the Internet is not a group, the old question remains: "How many D&D players does it take to change a lightbulb?". Answer: ALL OF THEM! NEVER SPLIT THE PARTY!

Oh mate... sometimes it is best to split the party.


(pics to big for the forums and I'm too lazy to edit it down)

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Are you kidding. Do you know how vulnerable adventurers are without their gear. Bath time is exactly the time when you want your team mates handy in case of surprise attacks.

Author:  Fishman [ Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Most adventurers never bathe. This is why charisma scores of 3 are so common with them.

Author:  Aratan [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Arcanestomper wrote:
Are you kidding. Do you know how vulnerable adventurers are without their gear. Bath time is exactly the time when you want your team mates handy in case of surprise attacks.


One of my DMs had a group of bandits raid our inn while half of the party was bathing. My monk helped defend the place while wearing nothing but his magic rings.

Author:  FreeFlier [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

One of the DMs I played under was noted for kinkiness (He thought John Norman's Gor books were fine literature . . . I'm still not sure who that degrades . . .) so we made a point of always having two-thirds of the party dressed and usually armored while the other third bathed . . .

(The third that were bathing still kept their weapons to hand.)

That was the same campaign where we hid two and a half million coins by sticking them into the wet plaster on the (inside) walls, then painting over them . . .

--FreeFlier

Author:  Fishman [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Assuming a coin about the size of a quarter, occupying ~6.25 square centimeters each of space in a single-layer configuration for a total of 1562.5 square meters of wall, for a standard 2.5 meter-high interior, that works out to 625 meters of wall. That's a pretty big building to have over half a kilometer of wall in it, all of which will be plated in coins. All it takes is someone accidentally chipping the plaster anywhere in this for the jig to be up. The only reason I can think of for doing a thing like that is less to HIDE the coins and more to put the coins to work as improvised radiation shielding for your fallout shelter.

Author:  grahamf [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Fishman wrote:
Assuming a coin about the size of a quarter, occupying ~6.25 square centimeters each of space in a single-layer configuration for a total of 1562.5 square meters of wall, for a standard 2.5 meter-high interior, that works out to 625 meters of wall. That's a pretty big building to have over half a kilometer of wall in it, all of which will be plated in coins. All it takes is someone accidentally chipping the plaster anywhere in this for the jig to be up. The only reason I can think of for doing a thing like that is less to HIDE the coins and more to put the coins to work as improvised radiation shielding for your fallout shelter.

What happens if they are pushed in edgewise, with multiple ones shoved into the same hole?

Author:  Fishman [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Then the ruse would be detected almost instantly, the moment somebody bumps or leans against the wall, as this isn't a stable configuration.

Author:  FreeFlier [ Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

It was more than one building, several large mansions, and the DM wasn't clever enough to figure out how to beat it.

We didn't expect to make that large of a profit on that deal . . . the DM-run NPC didn't bargain, and we made two and a half million platinum in profit.

(Mean Axe's vendettas were marvelously profitable, even if he bargained in future.)

Of course, we also managed to wipe out better than 80% of a drow kingdom . . . unfortunately, it was the high ranks that survived.

As if a huge ancient red dragon after us wasn't enough.

--FreeFlier

Author:  Aratan [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

I was playing Dragon's Dogma today and realized the designers of that game have created a system that should be used as the gold standard for escort missions.

Essentially there are two ways to complete the escort missions. You can do it the traditional way, set out with your party and escortee, travel halfway to your destination, and watch in horror as your escortee suicide charge into a chimera, a cyclops, or a band of goblins. The worst part is that there is no option to repeat the escort quest, if the NPC dies, the game saves at that point and they are gone for good. Most of these NPCs are vendors who sell rare items, with exclusive post-game items available if they complete their respective escort missions.

However, there is a built-in anti-frustration feature. You and your party can travel to the destination before hand and plant a "portcrystal" (reusable teleportation markers given as quest rewards early on). Then, you use a "ferrystone" (teleportation crystals that are common loot and sold in shops) to teleport to a city near the quest giver, accept the escort mission, and use another ferrystone to teleport everyone straight to the destination. All that is left is to collect your reward, pick up your portcrystal, and be on your way.

Author:  grahamf [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Aratan wrote:
I was playing Dragon's Dogma today and realized the designers of that game have created a system that should be used as the gold standard for escort missions.

Essentially there are two ways to complete the escort missions. You can do it the traditional way, set out with your party and escortee, travel halfway to your destination, and watch in horror as your escortee suicide charge into a chimera, a cyclops, or a band of goblins. The worst part is that there is no option to repeat the escort quest, if the NPC dies, the game saves at that point and they are gone for good. Most of these NPCs are vendors who sell rare items, with exclusive post-game items available if they complete their respective escort missions.

However, there is a built-in anti-frustration feature. You and your party can travel to the destination before hand and plant a "portcrystal" (reusable teleportation markers given as quest rewards early on). Then, you use a "ferrystone" (teleportation crystals that are common loot and sold in shops) to teleport to a city near the quest giver, accept the escort mission, and use another ferrystone to teleport everyone straight to the destination. All that is left is to collect your reward, pick up your portcrystal, and be on your way.

I'd love that.

"I need to get to Quing, it will be a long journey full of perils and arduous - "
"Yeah Yeah we accept hold on"
*Pling*
"Here we are. now give."

Author:  evileeyore [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Aratan wrote:
Then, you use a "ferrystone" (teleportation crystals that are common loot and sold in shops) to teleport to a city near the quest giver, accept the escort mission, and use another ferrystone to teleport everyone straight to the destination.

That's great, if you know about the escort mission before hand.

A better solution is for you to be able to say "Yeah, hang out here, we'll travel to your destination and port you in once it's safe" after you accept the escort quest.

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

evileeyore wrote:
Aratan wrote:
Then, you use a "ferrystone" (teleportation crystals that are common loot and sold in shops) to teleport to a city near the quest giver, accept the escort mission, and use another ferrystone to teleport everyone straight to the destination.

That's great, if you know about the escort mission before hand.

A better solution is for you to be able to say "Yeah, hang out here, we'll travel to your destination and port you in once it's safe" after you accept the escort quest.


It's been a while since I played that game, but I don't remember having any trouble with the escort quests, and if I had to walk everywhere there would have been trouble that game is swarming with monsters.

I'm pretty sure that there was either a way to see the destination beforehand or you just had the ability to set up ports to every major city with no issues.

Author:  sotanaht [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Arcanestomper wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Aratan wrote:
Then, you use a "ferrystone" (teleportation crystals that are common loot and sold in shops) to teleport to a city near the quest giver, accept the escort mission, and use another ferrystone to teleport everyone straight to the destination.

That's great, if you know about the escort mission before hand.

A better solution is for you to be able to say "Yeah, hang out here, we'll travel to your destination and port you in once it's safe" after you accept the escort quest.


It's been a while since I played that game, but I don't remember having any trouble with the escort quests, and if I had to walk everywhere there would have been trouble that game is swarming with monsters.

I'm pretty sure that there was either a way to see the destination beforehand or you just had the ability to set up ports to every major city with no issues.

Neither of those things is true at least in NG and escorts are a major issue. They are however completely optional, so after your first taste of that crap you probably just skipped the rest. In the first playthrough there are 4 placable portcrystals and 2 permanent ones, but you only get one of the placable ones reasonably early on unless you know where the others are and go there before the story takes you there.

Author:  Arcanestomper [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Well I never had a problem with them. Maybe I just left it until the late game when I had a bunch of port crystals set up.

Author:  keybounce [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018-06-04: Escort quest with suicidial characters

Arcanestomper wrote:
The only reasonable approach to an escort quest is to physically hold your escortees back while you kill everything remotely hostile in the area.


Remember StarCraft? So many of those missions were scripted (introductory text, closing voiceovers, etc.) that the hero was the one who was doing whatever action was needed. However, you lost if the hero died, and the heroes have absolutely zero self-preservation instinct. No special AI as far as I could tell, just more hit points/armor and the same "get in close and get into the fight" (lack of) thinking.

Holding the hero back and ignoring the script was the only way I could ever do those missions.

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