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 Post subject: 2018-06-10 Finding Range
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Did anyone call that the pa'anuri might be behind this? I certainly didn't, but now that I've thought about it, it's not at all surprising that they have long gun technology.

That said, can anyone explain to me why they have to brief Petey in person instead of giving him a call? Are they afraid that the pa'anuri might snoop on their communications?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:27 pm 
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I don't remember anybody calling it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Welll,.. yes. And no.
I suspected the Pa'anuri were behind it, as they were the only entity we knew of, other than maybe the O'benn, who wanted everyone fighting everyone.
And the O'benn lost a vessel with no warning, too.
I didn't suspect they were shooting directly. I was hung up on it being a massive false-flag operation by one of their shills, rather than them firing randomly into a dark room.

At this point. Pa'anuri are just the Usual Suspects for something of this breadth.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:58 pm 
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I think the thing that prevented anyone from calling this is what Bala-Amin is asking about in the 10th panel. Nobody could reasonably expect that the Pa'anuri could fire from the Andromeda galaxy to the Milky Way galaxy and hit something in real time.

My guess is that they're not. One Pa'anuri is hanging out in the Milky Way and relaying targets back to Andromeda using the power of their core generator.

Ironically this means that Crazy Chinook's war is pointless even if she wins. If she kills every long gun in the galaxy she still won't get the actual culprits.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Except Bala's interjection makes no sense.

It's common knowledge that FTL communications exist. We and best informed characters in universe know that it is possible to teraport to Andromeda (Petey had to send prisoners to Andromedan reeducation camp/penal battalion of his, after all), I would expect Bala to be among those briefed on this fact (UNS certainly knows, Breya was there during her stint as ambassador). There is no reason why it wouldn't possible, and no reason to think this wouldn't be possible. The only real barrier here is light speed, which is not a barrier in-story, everything else is a matter of scale.

That being said, I'm not sold on this explanation. If long gun targeting data really has 5 parameters (because it's supposed to be 5 dimensional IIRC), you only need 5 shots (unless you deliberately fire them to be on some embedded hypersurface, then you would need more, but there's no reason to deliberately shoot along hypersurface when you are trying to probe entire space) to map parameter-phase space with target timespace. Pa'anuri should have been able to nuke Petey with 6th shot.


Last edited by M[i]ech on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Heh, I guess the Colonel was right, it IS a case of someone not having qualified on the weapon they're firing.

Also, supremely unlucky for our main cast, that in a galaxy filled with far larger annie plants, they'd hit the tiny ones on M39.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:33 am 
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The pattern she's observed is that what she and everyone else seems to be assuming are "long gun" strikes are working inwards from the rim of the galaxy towards the center.

"It's the Pa'anuri and they're trying to shoot Petey" isn't an explanation I had considered.
(My pet theory is more: "It's the All-star and they're trying to get all the FTL-capable species to kill each other so they'll be left alone and not rediscovered until more such species arise. And no, Putzho is not in on this plan." )


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:01 am 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Except Bala's interjection makes no sense.

It's common knowledge that FTL communications exist. We and best informed characters in universe know that it is possible to teraport to Andromeda (Petey had to send prisoners to Andromedan reeducation camp/penal battalion of his, after all), I would expect Bala to be among those briefed on this fact (UNS certainly knows, Breya was there during her stint as ambassador). There is no reason why it wouldn't possible, and no reason to think this wouldn't be possible. The only real barrier here is light speed, which is not a barrier in-story, everything else is a matter of scale.

That being said, I'm not sold on this explanation. If long gun targeting data really has 5 parameters (because it's supposed to be 5 dimensional IIRC), you only need 5 shots (unless you deliberately fire them to be on some embedded hypersurface, then you would need more, but there's no reason to deliberately shoot along hypersurface when you are trying to probe entire space) to map parameter-phase space with target timespace. Pa'anuri should have been able to nuke Petey with 6th shot.


They have FTL communications, but they specifically do not have FTL sensors. This is the only current defense against the long gun. Keeping people far enough away from you that they cannot get accurate sensor data for their long guns.

For the Pa'anuri to be firing from the Andromeda galaxy to the Milky Way and hitting anything, much less actual ships, they either have FTL sensors or they have observers inside the Milky Way. If they have FTL sensors, then they've pretty much won the war. They can comfortably kill you from anywhere. Them having observers in the Milky Way is reasonable from a logistics sense, but it brings up the question of who exactly is the observer.

If it's a Pa'anuri how did it survive the purges. I'm sure Petey is going to great lengths to keep them from getting a foothold in the Milky Way again. On the other hand if it's a baryonic race acting agents for them it brings up the question of why they would do that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:23 am 
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Doesn't that more or less require linear mapping of 5 space to 3 space? The more complex the mapping the more shots are required to work out the mapping.

If the 5 -> 3 mapping is exceptionally complex you could make shooting a specific target nearly impossible.

(I assume the Pa'anuri simply know the 5 space coordinates of all the annie plants they can "see" as part of how they see them)

Edit: it also assumes 5 and 3 space are locally flat(ish). At least where people are can exist. A potential way to avoid 5 space targeting is to warp the everliving crap out of it, leaving flat 5 or 3 space pathways that constantly change your coordinates. Would eat insane amounts of power but if you can warp space-time (and gravitic sheilds would require that ability) you can make things difficult for someone with a long-gun.

M[i]ech wrote:
Except Bala's interjection makes no sense.

It's common knowledge that FTL communications exist. We and best informed characters in universe know that it is possible to teraport to Andromeda (Petey had to send prisoners to Andromedan reeducation camp/penal battalion of his, after all), I would expect Bala to be among those briefed on this fact (UNS certainly knows, Breya was there during her stint as ambassador). There is no reason why it wouldn't possible, and no reason to think this wouldn't be possible. The only real barrier here is light speed, which is not a barrier in-story, everything else is a matter of scale.

That being said, I'm not sold on this explanation. If long gun targeting data really has 5 parameters (because it's supposed to be 5 dimensional IIRC), you only need 5 shots (unless you deliberately fire them to be on some embedded hypersurface, then you would need more, but there's no reason to deliberately shoot along hypersurface when you are trying to probe entire space) to map parameter-phase space with target timespace. Pa'anuri should have been able to nuke Petey with 6th shot.


Last edited by DrCron on Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:31 am 
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Fishman wrote:
Also, supremely unlucky for our main cast, that in a galaxy filled with far larger annie plants, they'd hit the tiny ones on M39.

If the Pa'anuri knew who and where Kevyn was, they have considerable motivation to kill the re-inventor of the terraport and TAD.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:52 am 
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Mech wrote:
That being said, I'm not sold on this explanation. If long gun targeting data really has 5 parameters (because it's supposed to be 5 dimensional IIRC), you only need 5 shots (unless you deliberately fire them to be on some embedded hypersurface, then you would need more, but there's no reason to deliberately shoot along hypersurface when you are trying to probe entire space) to map parameter-phase space with target timespace. Pa'anuri should have been able to nuke Petey with 6th shot.

Unless... as is suggested, they are walking their shots across annie plants hoping to hit Petey [i]because they don't which pieces of ground are his.


In other words "All of this ground is the enemy, eventually we'll either hit it all or hit the pieces that are our worst enemy. Either way we win."


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:26 am 
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No ideas on why they can't just give Petey a call?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:53 am 
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Nemoricus wrote:
No ideas on why they can't just give Petey a call?
It's a mystery. Possibly they want to get out of sight of Chinook so she doesn't see them starting a call to Petey and then blow them up instantly for fraternising with the enemy. She doesn't have spotters everywhere, after all, and if they leave the vicinity they should be able to make the call unnoticed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Though honestly I don't know why they don't tell Chinook this in the first place. It's not like she has any love for the Pa'anuri.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Though honestly I don't know why they don't tell Chinook this in the first place. It's not like she has any love for the Pa'anuri.

Because she's obviously gone crazy again and isn't likely to believe them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:54 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Though honestly I don't know why they don't tell Chinook this in the first place. It's not like she has any love for the Pa'anuri.

Because she's obviously gone crazy again and isn't likely to believe them.

Maybe? If they present the facts she might be rational enough to consider it, then her focus would be on figuring out how to triangulate the Andromeda core.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:34 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Though honestly I don't know why they don't tell Chinook this in the first place. It's not like she has any love for the Pa'anuri.

Because she's obviously gone crazy again and isn't likely to believe them.

Maybe? If they present the facts she might be rational enough to consider it, then her focus would be on figuring out how to triangulate the Andromeda core.

She is unstable. Being presented with facts that counter her current world-view could trigger another spiral, making things even worse.

And with our outside knowledge, we know that Chinook has something actively making her less stable, based on how much grief she is feeling. Being presented with the new facts will make her feel bad for long-gunning the wrong targets, which would almost certainly cause that routine to activate again and destabilize her even more. So it is a very good thing they did not try to tell Chinook.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Ah, there's the answer to my question: https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-06-11

Chinook is jamming comms, which makes sense.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Ah, there's the answer to my question: https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-06-11

Chinook is jamming comms, which makes sense.

Yeah, but that doesn't answer why Captain Sorlie is so insistent that they physically visit PD.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Maybe Captain Sorlie thinks everyone should cluster around the core, to act as chaff?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:20 am 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Ah, there's the answer to my question: https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-06-11

Chinook is jamming comms, which makes sense.


It makes sense for a crazy person..

You can't jam comms far enough out to avoid someone getting a hypercomm signal out to target Ein-Afa. Still, she'd still want to jam comms.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:29 pm 
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It's probably less of a targeting thing than keeping people from getting information on what is going on inside Eina-Afa.

It is after all filled with a whole lot of civilians, and figuring out where to target to kill Chinook is not an easy problem from the outside.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
It's probably less of a targeting thing than keeping people from getting information on what is going on inside Eina-Afa.

It is after all filled with a whole lot of civilians, and figuring out where to target to kill Chinook is not an easy problem from the outside.

...wouldn't she then be vaporizing anyone that tries to leave the jammed zone?

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