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 Post subject: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Can someone help me understand the Planet Mercenary Ship Ranking system a little better?

Once I have it down I'll make a nice wiki page for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:18 pm 
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It's pretty straightforward though I won't just detail everything since that's what the rulebook is for. The letter is an indicator of size. Going from Z, really small, to Q, really big. The number indicates the firepower/class going from 0, merchant ships, to 9, loaded for bear. Standard warships are 6. A "+" means that the ship is special somehow usually because it's carrying other ships.

Note that the number indicates the class within the size category. A Z9 is not going to be beating Q8, or even a Q6 most likely. Something amply demonstrated by today's comic which explicitly states that an S9 cannot beat a Q7, which is only one category size larger.


Last edited by Arcanestomper on Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:19 pm 
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The size goes backwards from Z-A, though we haven't seen anything bigger than a Q yet, I don't think - those may be better classified as 'starbases' to Planet Mercenary - and the number indicates how heavily armed and combat capable it is, from 1-9.

Clearly 'combat capability' is fluid, since Breath Weapon dropped *considerably* With no AI, to the point where even a tiny X-class could give her a fight (Albeit an extremely *bitey* X)

The size class HAS to be a multiplier of some sort, as the face of it implies that X9 could outfight an Ob'enn Superfortress which sits at Q8.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
Clearly 'combat capability' is fluid, since Breath Weapon dropped *considerably* With no AI, to the point where even a tiny X-class could give her a fight (Albeit an extremely *bitey* X)


I think it's actually pretty clear. We've seen before what happens when a warship loses it's AI. It can barely fire it's weapons, it's maneuvering is critically hampered, and it can no longer effect the nanosecond quick genius tactics required in modern naval warfare.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
It's pretty straightforward though I won't just detail everything since that's what the rulebook is for. The letter is an indicator of size. Going from Z, really small, to Q, really big. The number indicates the firepower/class going from 0, merchant ships, to 9, loaded for bear. Standard warships are 6. A "+" means that the ship is special somehow usually because it's carrying other ships.

Note that the number indicates the class within the size category. A Z9 is not going to be beating Q8, or even a Q6 most likely. Something amply demonstrated by today's comic which explicitly states that an S9 cannot beat a Q7, which is only one category size larger.


There's clearly some wiggle room, as the poorly refit merchant vessels and such of the UPA fleet weren't considered much threat even though they had size, and Breath Weapon's current S4-ish rating could make battle with the tiny X9 dicey.

Equally clearly, you don't want to go toe to toe with something of similar combat capability that's even a size class larger. Of course, there's a very, very wide margin for size classes, if Breath Weapom is only an S and a Tricorn class battleplate is a Q. We've seen other Q-class ships in relation to a Tricorn - most notably the typical Q8 of an Ob'enn Superfortress; to be precise, the PDCL, and while it's certainly big *enough* next to one, the Tricorn has it beat rather handily in sheer size.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:34 am 
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Z- less than 10 meters in length
Y - 10-39 meters
X - 40-99 meters
V - 100-299 meters
T - 300-499 meters
S - 500-999 meters
Q - 999+ meters

0, 1, 2 - basically unarmed, minimal point defenses
3, 4, 5 - point defenses, minimal ship to ship weapons
6 - ship to ship capable
7, 8, 9 - warships

With as much as Howard as referenced that table, he really should post it himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:54 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Something amply demonstrated by today's comic which explicitly states that an S9 cannot beat a Q7, which is only one category size larger.

Two. It's two size classes larger. You're skipping the 'R' class sir.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:29 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Something amply demonstrated by today's comic which explicitly states that an S9 cannot beat a Q7, which is only one category size larger.

Two. It's two size classes larger. You're skipping the 'R' class sir.


There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Though personally I think that there should be an R class and should it be where Q is now to cover things like superfortresses while Q is for plate class ships. Because clearly there is a major jump between a superfortress and a plate but as it stands they are both Q.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:58 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
There is no R class.

I'm ready for a new ship classification system now.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:13 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Really? That's dumb. Who designed this? Do they realize how dumb it is?


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:19 am 
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Well, the W would sound like a tax form, the U is close to a certain band, and the R is famous for a certain Type of ship....

After The Great Retcon I don't blame Howard for wanting to avoid trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:34 am 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Really? That's dumb. Who designed this? Do they realize how dumb it is?


take a guess as to who designed it @_@


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:36 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
It's pretty straightforward though I won't just detail everything since that's what the rulebook is for.


There's a rulebook?


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:29 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
Something amply demonstrated by today's comic which explicitly states that an S9 cannot beat a Q7, which is only one category size larger.

Two. It's two size classes larger. You're skipping the 'R' class sir.


There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Though personally I think that there should be an R class and should it be where Q is now to cover things like superfortresses while Q is for plate class ships. Because clearly there is a major jump between a superfortress and a plate but as it stands they are both Q.



Except only a handful of the species shown have ships in the Q band. The Obenn have them because their system had a Oafan PTU storage planet drift into it. The UNS and Petey are the only others shown.

Humans are what a top 5 most numerous species out of over 100,000 and the UNS had what 1-200 plate class?


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Malapterus wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
It's pretty straightforward though I won't just detail everything since that's what the rulebook is for.


There's a rulebook?

There is indeed: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/209 ... cenary-RPG


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:02 pm 
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ushio wrote:
Except only a handful of the species shown have ships in the Q band. The Obenn have them because their system had a Oafan PTU storage planet drift into it. The UNS and Petey are the only others shown.

Humans are what a top 5 most numerous species out of over 100,000 and the UNS had what 1-200 plate class?


That's not really fair to the setting. We've only really seen the navies of the UNS and the O'benn in depth, but when Petey assembled the armada to deal with the out of control core generator a lot of different species showed up. Plate class ships were explicitly mentioned not in the sense that they were rare, but that O'benn ones were the biggest. And I'm pretty sure when the UNS plates were first introduced it was mentioned that a lot of species use them, because a lot of species don't want asteroids hitting their home planets.

The UNS probably has the most and the third biggest, after the Ob'enn and Petey, but they aren't the only ones with plates. I'm pretty sure the only reason we haven't seen other species using them is that frankly this comic is highly UNS centric. It's pretty much a sure thing that the Gatekeepers had plate class ships for instance, although whether they still retain control of them is questionable at this point.

And in any case whether they do or not my point is that Q covers everything greater than 999 meters. And we have seen a lot of differentiation in that range because it's open ended. It's probably not in the table simply because that for a real life player or the in setting Planet Mercenary customers it doesn't matter because seeing anything in the Q range means you're screwed.

But for evaluating the setting as a whole it would be useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
ushio wrote:
Except only a handful of the species shown have ships in the Q band. The Obenn have them because their system had a Oafan PTU storage planet drift into it. The UNS and Petey are the only others shown.

Humans are what a top 5 most numerous species out of over 100,000 and the UNS had what 1-200 plate class?


That's not really fair to the setting. We've only really seen the navies of the UNS and the O'benn in depth, but when Petey assembled the armada to deal with the out of control core generator a lot of different species showed up. Plate class ships were explicitly mentioned not in the sense that they were rare, but that O'benn ones were the biggest. And I'm pretty sure when the UNS plates were first introduced it was mentioned that a lot of species use them, because a lot of species don't want asteroids hitting their home planets.

The UNS probably has the most and the third biggest, after the Ob'enn and Petey, but they aren't the only ones with plates. I'm pretty sure the only reason we haven't seen other species using them is that frankly this comic is highly UNS centric. It's pretty much a sure thing that the Gatekeepers had plate class ships for instance, although whether they still retain control of them is questionable at this point.

And in any case whether they do or not my point is that Q covers everything greater than 999 meters. And we have seen a lot of differentiation in that range because it's open ended. It's probably not in the table simply because that for a real life player or the in setting Planet Mercenary customers it doesn't matter because seeing anything in the Q range means you're screwed.

But for evaluating the setting as a whole it would be useful.



The gatekeepers didn't seem to have any ships, in the battles against them they used their duplication tech to just make millions of missiles and teraport jammers.

Why waste resources on ships? they where hidden and made all the money off of owning every wormgate.


I do agree that Q tier pretty much screams military of a big deal species so run.

Though from what's been shown the current cat species do not seem to have plate class ships otherwise a single one could deal with the incoming ships rather than sending a whole fleet. The same is true for numerous other species shown that could have used ships but had none like these two https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-12-13 and https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2006-09-07


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:12 pm 
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ushio wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
ushio wrote:
Except only a handful of the species shown have ships in the Q band. The Obenn have them because their system had a Oafan PTU storage planet drift into it. The UNS and Petey are the only others shown.

Humans are what a top 5 most numerous species out of over 100,000 and the UNS had what 1-200 plate class?


That's not really fair to the setting. We've only really seen the navies of the UNS and the O'benn in depth, but when Petey assembled the armada to deal with the out of control core generator a lot of different species showed up. Plate class ships were explicitly mentioned not in the sense that they were rare, but that O'benn ones were the biggest. And I'm pretty sure when the UNS plates were first introduced it was mentioned that a lot of species use them, because a lot of species don't want asteroids hitting their home planets.

The UNS probably has the most and the third biggest, after the Ob'enn and Petey, but they aren't the only ones with plates. I'm pretty sure the only reason we haven't seen other species using them is that frankly this comic is highly UNS centric. It's pretty much a sure thing that the Gatekeepers had plate class ships for instance, although whether they still retain control of them is questionable at this point.

And in any case whether they do or not my point is that Q covers everything greater than 999 meters. And we have seen a lot of differentiation in that range because it's open ended. It's probably not in the table simply because that for a real life player or the in setting Planet Mercenary customers it doesn't matter because seeing anything in the Q range means you're screwed.

But for evaluating the setting as a whole it would be useful.



The gatekeepers didn't seem to have any ships, in the battles against them they used their duplication tech to just make millions of missiles and teraport jammers.

Why waste resources on ships? they where hidden and made all the money off of owning every wormgate.


I do agree that Q tier pretty much screams military of a big deal species so run.

Though from what's been shown the current cat species do not seem to have plate class ships otherwise a single one could deal with the incoming ships rather than sending a whole fleet. The same is true for numerous other species shown that could have used ships but had none like these two https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-12-13 and https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2006-09-07


Oh I'm not saying everyone has them. They're clearly the province of the great powers. But I'm sure at least one other species does since I don't think any human navy would name a ship El'gygytgyn. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-12-29

Most races probably have lesser Q class ships like the really big carriers and super fortresses. Which is probably why the classification doesn't differentiate.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:

Oh I'm not saying everyone has them. They're clearly the province of the great powers. But I'm sure at least one other species does since I don't think any human navy would name a ship El'gygytgyn. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-12-29

Most races probably have lesser Q class ships like the really big carriers and super fortresses. Which is probably why the classification doesn't differentiate.



El'gygytgyn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Elgygytgyn it follows the naming convention of UNS battle plates.

I wonder what a really big carrier looks like the UNS carrier class is only about 600m long with a 200m annie plant the same as the Breath Weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:53 pm 
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ushio wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:

Oh I'm not saying everyone has them. They're clearly the province of the great powers. But I'm sure at least one other species does since I don't think any human navy would name a ship El'gygytgyn. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-12-29

Most races probably have lesser Q class ships like the really big carriers and super fortresses. Which is probably why the classification doesn't differentiate.



El'gygytgyn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Elgygytgyn it follows the naming convention of UNS battle plates.

I wonder what a really big carrier looks like the UNS carrier class is only about 600m long with a 200m annie plant the same as the Breath Weapon.


I had never heard about that crater.

The listed UNS carrier is already 600-700 meters. Add a third annie plant and you break the 1,000 meter mark without getting into battleplate territory. At that scale it might be better to just build a battleplate, but if you can't build a battleplate and you want a flagship carrier it seems fairly easier to upscale a bit.

That's kind of my point. The only requirement for Q class is that you be larger than 1 kilometer in some dimension. That is not terribly hard to accomplish. The civilian super freighters are bigger than that. So any military feeling the need could probably commission a military version. It's the kilometer sized annie plants that define a battleplate and which are so hard to build.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:54 am 
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Q stands for Q-mungous


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:00 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Really? That's dumb. Who designed this? Do they realize how dumb it is?

It may be dumb, but it's at least a standardized kind of dumb. Lots of alphabetic codes drop letters from the alphabet to reduce the possibility of confusion. For example, the U.S. military doesn't use "I" for language codes, and substitutes J in its place (thus my language code for Italian was "JT").

Similarly, in codes where letters and numbers are used together it's common to omit the letters I, O, Q, S, Z as being too close to various numbers. In this context, keeping only one of U, V, W makes sense as they are visually similar at a quick glance.

I'm thinking that the Q class in this ship classification table squeaked in because they don't use a zero, hence no confusion. I can't explain how "Z" manages to justify its existence, nor can I explain the omission of "R".
<\apologia>


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Z probably snuck its way in by virtue of those ships being too small to notice.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Zinho wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
There is no R class. There isn't a W or U class either because having actual consecutive letters would be too easy.

Really? That's dumb. Who designed this? Do they realize how dumb it is?

It may be dumb, but it's at least a standardized kind of dumb. Lots of alphabetic codes drop letters from the alphabet to reduce the possibility of confusion. For example, the U.S. military doesn't use "I" for language codes, and substitutes J in its place (thus my language code for Italian was "JT").

Similarly, in codes where letters and numbers are used together it's common to omit the letters I, O, Q, S, Z as being too close to various numbers. In this context, keeping only one of U, V, W makes sense as they are visually similar at a quick glance.

I'm thinking that the Q class in this ship classification table squeaked in because they don't use a zero, hence no confusion. I can't explain how "Z" manages to justify its existence, nor can I explain the omission of "R".
<\apologia>



Z would be for tanks like the Toughs used to use. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-05-15


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:46 pm 
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I'm telling you, the R size class may well be because there's a rather famous series of video games starring ships of the R# designation. It's called R-Type.

Considering the trouble involved with the predecessor to the 'Maxims', whatever it was called, I can't blame Howard for wanting to try to avoid that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Kendrakirai wrote:
I'm telling you, the R size class may well be because there's a rather famous series of video games starring ships of the R# designation. It's called R-Type.

Considering the trouble involved with the predecessor to the 'Maxims', whatever it was called, I can't blame Howard for wanting to try to avoid that.

I just googled that. The playable character is called R-9, which would make it pretty much an exact match for Taylor's scale if he included an R-class. I also remember the Great Retcon, and don't blame the author for going out of his way to avoid it happening again.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:20 am 
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Nemoricus wrote:
Z probably snuck its way in by virtue of those ships being too small to notice.
ushio wrote:
Z would be for tanks like the Toughs used to use. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-05-15

You both missed the point. [1] If we're omitting letters for clarity, both Q and Z have numerals (0 and 2) that they closely resemble and should probably have been skipped. I can only conclude that confusion for number wasn't a factor.

I'm going to throw my lot in with Motortiki and Kendrakirai regarding the letter "R"; while if I were Sega I'd be tickled to have a shout-out to a property from 1987, I'm not Sega and I won't blame Howard for not tickling another bear.


[1] Kudos to Nemoricus for use of metonymy, that was clever. If you meant to do that, then I take it back about having missed the point.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Zinho wrote:
Kudos to Nemoricus for use of metonymy, that was clever. If you meant to do that, then I take it back about having missed the point.

It was intentional. Allusions to certain hat wearing cats, while also apt, were not.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:39 pm 
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I wonder what happens when someone starts fielding objects so massive that Q no longer even does it justice. A category that begins at merely a kilometer long would inconveniently encompass both something the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer and the Death Star, and these objects are clearly of such grossly different power levels that a range of 7-9 just doesn't cover it. And there certainly isn't anything in the Schlockiverse that stops anyone from creating, mobilizing, and weaponizing an object the size of the Death Star or more.


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 Post subject: Re: Ship Ranking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Fishman wrote:
And there certainly isn't anything in the Schlockiverse that stops anyone from creating, mobilizing, and weaponizing an object the size of the Death Star or more.

I'm pretty sure economics exists in the Schlockverse.


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