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The Nightstar Zoo • View topic - 2018-7-22 Repossession

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 Post subject: 2018-7-22 Repossession
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Does this mean that Tagon and co are broke again?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:17 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:34 pm 
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The Toughs don't even have to lose the assets . . . the court simply sequesters the disputed assets until the final decision.

Which could be in a century or more . . . after all, it's not like the principals are in any hurry to finish the case before they die . . .

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:44 pm 
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Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:47 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:42 pm 
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The point is that the vessels they salvaged weren't manned. Sure it eventually turned out that their former owners weren't actually dead. But if you leave something lying around completely untouched for long enough most courts count it as claimable whether or not you're still alive.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Except they wouldn't still be alive if said bank hadn't trapped them in the first place. There are a lot of intricacies to this, which is why it would takes decades or centuries for the courts to work out how everything should be handled.

Or a couple seconds of discussion between Putzo, Petey, and the Oafan AIs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:31 pm 
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The specifics of Schlockverse law aside (which we also don't know), Tagon's prickly reaction has more to do with being correct about the terminology. Because they were being towed, the Touch-and-Go was still their ship. If they were instead being salvaged, it wouldn't be, and Tagon very much wants his ship to stay his ship.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Another thought, wouldn't "salvage" mean it is deemed to have little value - so there is no need to use caution to avoid further damage?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:17 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Value doesn't have anything to do with it. If a ship is wrecked and needs to be rescued by an outside party, then it is salvage. If it can continue under its own power or with repairs made by its own crew, then it's not salvage.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 pm 
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"Salvage law is very old and dates back to medieval times, when men went to sea primarily to engage in commerce. A vessel in trouble often carried cargo worth as much or more than the ship itself, and the men attracted by her distress were just as likely to plunder her as to save her. Thus the core principle of salvage law has always been that honest men who risk their own lives and vessels trying to save other vessels should be very well rewarded.

Under current U.S. admiralty law, which conforms to international salvage law as laid out in the Salvage Convention of 1989, assistance rendered another vessel is considered salvage when: 1) the assisted vessel is subject to a reasonable apprehension of marine peril; 2) the assistance is voluntary; and 3) the assistance is successful in whole or part.

A successful salvor is NOT entitled to just keep the salved vessel, under any circumstances, but is entitled to a generous award. The amount of the award, under the law, is based on the following factors:
1) the value of the vessel and its contents after the salvage is complete;
2) the salvor's skill and initiative in minimizing damage to the environment;
3) the degree of success obtained by the salvor;
4) the level of peril to which the salvaged vessel was subject;
5) the salvor's skill and initiative in saving the vessel, human lives, and other property;
6) the salvor's labor and expenses;
7) the amount of risk run by the salvor;
8) the promptness of the services rendered;
9) the availability and use of any alternative salvage resources; and
10) the readiness, efficiency, and value of the salvor's vessel and equipment.

Consider all these factors together, and you'll note they strongly favor the salvor. The idea being that salvors should not only be compensated for their time and trouble; they should also receive a substantial premium as an inducement to render assistance in the first place. In a "low-order" salvage, where the risk to a salvor is negligible and the salvaged vessel was in little danger, the premium will be relatively small, but in a "high-order" salvage the total award can, under the law, be as high as (though it may not exceed) 100 percent of the value of the salvaged vessel and its contents. Also, salvors automatically get a high-priority lien on any vessel they save and may keep the vessel until the owner posts security.

This, of course, is where the misconception come from. If you are entitled to an award equaling 100 percent of the value of a vessel, some owners and most insurers may well propose that you simply keep the vessel, as this saves them the administrative and transactional costs of selling it to pay you off. Even if you don't want the vessel, they can force the situation by not paying you, thereby compelling you to seize the boat."

Salvage Law, Do you get to keep an abandoned boat?

Maritime laws are the oldest extant laws in the world. Although modernized, still many customs and practices remain the same after literally hundreds of years.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:33 pm 
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That's pretty accurate.


Further, in the event that the vessel is returned to service before payment negotiations break down, the salvor may then enter a claim with a competent court and obtain a writ of arrest . . . when the vessel next enters a port recognizing the authority of said court, the vessel - not the crew, officers or owners - is arrested and may not leave port nor discharge cargo until a bond has been posted equal to the amount in dispute (or, of course, the amount in dispute is paid).

Of course, IIRC, the owners may choose to surrender the vessel and cargo in lieu of payment . . . I believe that in that case, the value of the vessel and cargo is all that the salvor gets.

There are also fixed-price or fixed-rate salvage contracts . . . but both parties are bound by those, and irrespective of the actual costs . . . which has on occasion resulted in much larger bills than the LOF would have.


As far as the car-towing comparison, if the towing company impounds your car for any reason, including nonpayment of towing fees (they usually won't unhook until you've paid) and you don't pay the hookup fee, towing fees, impound fees and storage fees, they obtain title to your car and will sell it at auction. I've bought cars that way.

--FreeFlier


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