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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:04 pm 
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So, why does Ennesby get to keep his weapon and gravitics?

It doesn't look like Petey refitted him with conventional thrusters, since there'd be serious backwash.
Maybe there are some sort of magnetic shenanigans going on? The movement lines are coming from his head rather than the fiddly bit...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:54 pm 
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It could simply be that Ennesby's mass is so low that his gravatic signature gets lost in the background noise.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Specifically, it's annie plants (and plasma) that are banned.

I don't think Ennesby's power source is ever explicitly stated, but he dates back to when the Toughs weren't rich enough to afford fancy uniforms with micro annies, so it seems likely he doesn't have one and uses some other means of powering his gravitic polarizers.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:18 am 
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ducky wrote:
Specifically, it's annie plants (and plasma) that are banned.

I don't think Ennesby's power source is ever explicitly stated, but he dates back to when the Toughs weren't rich enough to afford fancy uniforms with micro annies, so it seems likely he doesn't have one and uses some other means of powering his gravitic polarizers.

Maybe. I don't have the link but the last time annies were banned (when elf had her legs blown off) Ennesby explicitly told them to rip his head off. Maybe he didn't know it was annies though and just thought it was any power source. On the other hand, as much as it looks like his old "body" this is a brand new marraca and Petey might have already re-designed it for the no-annie rule.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:28 am 
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ducky wrote:
Specifically, it's annie plants (and plasma) that are banned.

I don't think Ennesby's power source is ever explicitly stated, but he dates back to when the Toughs weren't rich enough to afford fancy uniforms with micro annies, so it seems likely he doesn't have one and uses some other means of powering his gravitic polarizers.


Well, this does seem to suggest that small-scale gravitics do NOT require annie plants to operate, which was an important question.

Unless maybe the entire city is wired for magnetic levitation?

Come to think of it, I think there was a strip that covered this, about passenger vehicles on earth...

Here we go. didn't SPECIFICALLY address annie plants, though. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-09-29


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:32 am 
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As good a reason as any to stop lurking... :P

Is any of this techno-mumbo-jumbo illuminating?
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2000-07-29

-edit-
Upon reflection I notice it mentions the means of propulsion/levitation/whatever, but not the power source... oh well.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:00 am 
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Well, the flying car is definitely powered by a modestly sized annie at the back there.

I'm not sure it is the micro annies that are the expensive bit, although by the square-cube (+manufacturing) rule they're going to be far more expensive for the output than a ship scale one. Tiny annie plants are used in hand weapons.
Getting the miniaturized gravitics distributed and controlled correctly so you end up flying safely instead of catapulting your spleen into the air might be the hard part. Even the ships have trouble picking out one person without splattering them, but the car can just lift the metal frame near the annie and it is tough enough to hold together.


Does a gravitic polarizer require an annie to power it like all the other gravity manipulation we've seen? (though it is probably more efficient as a simple single-purpose device)
Also, isn't the whole idea of the habitat's security to avoid manipulating gravity in order to hide?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:22 am 
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I don't see why a gravatic polarizer would need its' own annie plant to function. Any local source of gravity should do.
I don't see how a gravatic polarizer can function in spin pseudo-gravity, in any case.

My (current) theory is Ennesby has the old-style gravatic polarizers, but they're useless, currently, and he's depending on station systems, which he's logged in to, to tug him around until he's back in natural or synthetic gravity. He may not be able to manipulate anything on his own without the aid of a waldo.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:40 am 
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Sean wrote:
My (current) theory is Ennesby has the old-style gravatic polarizers, but they're useless, currently, and he's depending on station systems, which he's logged in to, to tug him around until he's back in natural or synthetic gravity.

If so, he isn't aware of it, given that as of today he wasn't aware that he was in spin-gravity.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:40 am 
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John Dallman wrote:
Sean wrote:
My (current) theory is Ennesby has the old-style gravatic polarizers, but they're useless, currently, and he's depending on station systems, which he's logged in to, to tug him around until he's back in natural or synthetic gravity.

If so, he isn't aware of it, given that as of today he wasn't aware that he was in spin-gravity.


Simplest explanation - NSB has a set of semi-automatic subroutines that calculate how much gravitational gradient to generate to move the maraca around or hold it steady - relative to the surrounding environment.
That works very differently when the room is being swung in a circle - but the AI might not "consciously" have been aware of what it's subsystems had been doing differently.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:41 pm 
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FrankNorman wrote:
John Dallman wrote:
Sean wrote:
My (current) theory is Ennesby has the old-style gravatic polarizers, but they're useless, currently, and he's depending on station systems, which he's logged in to, to tug him around until he's back in natural or synthetic gravity.

If so, he isn't aware of it, given that as of today he wasn't aware that he was in spin-gravity.


Simplest explanation - NSB has a set of semi-automatic subroutines that calculate how much gravitational gradient to generate to move the maraca around or hold it steady - relative to the surrounding environment.
That works very differently when the room is being swung in a circle - but the AI might not "consciously" have been aware of what it's subsystems had been doing differently.


The problem with that is, there shouldn't be enough gravity around to focus to overcome the spin-"gravity".
Frankly, Ennesby should be lying on the deck, wondering why his gravatic polarizers aren't working any longer.
It's more possible that Petey dropped in a little sub-routine to allow him to use local resources to serve as a substitute, but that would be rude to do so and not tell Ennesby he'd been modified, if only slightly and only peripherally.
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-10
Had Ennesby been told, the reason for the modification would have led to his knowing about the spin-gravity before he looked out the window.

I just checked, I think this is the first time we've seen Ennesby operating in a spin-gravity environment. He wasn't part of Mall-cop Command, (although Tailor was, and they APPEAR to have similar motivation equipment..), and he was stickless during the anti-annie-plant activity during the initial sortie into Eina-Afa.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Oh look.
It’s the flying maraca.
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-11-02
In spin gravity.
For most of a story arc, not just the scene where Pi invents new negligent crimes.


karfston


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Karfston wrote:
Oh look.
It’s the flying maraca.
https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-11-02
In spin gravity.
For most of a story arc, not just the scene where Pi invents new negligent crimes.


karfston


There is also the time he was flying around Eina-Afa, before all the annie plants started getting shot out. That time, and this, there were annie plants, or other gravity sources, to operate parasitically off of.
I was only interested in times when there wasn't a significant gravity source around, either natural or synthetic, and I'm pretty sure spin-gravity doesn't count.

But, I'll grant that your tone was superior.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:42 pm 
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My tone, I would say, was inferior an in need of correction, but I’m presently unwell and in not a little discomfort here. I would say I have other urgencies, more pressing than looking up the correct spelling of ennesby’s name. The archive is huge, i’ll forgive people forgetting a couple story arcs.

What exactly is spin gravity?
If I cut away the rest of the universe so that the only thing that exists is me, am I spinning or non-rotating? Without objects to give me context, could my rate of spin be called ’undefined’? Could I even generate spin gravity? Or is that ‘gravity’ a consequence of the universe at large exerting an influence over me?

Would the spin ‘gravity’ Ennesby faces look similar to gravity from a gravity well? Or rather, how would it be different? How could he tell apart from rotational effects?

- Karfston, accidental consumer of things not fit for consumption


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:46 am 
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Karfston wrote:
My tone, I would say, was inferior an in need of correction, but I’m presently unwell and in not a little discomfort here. I would say I have other urgencies, more pressing than looking up the correct spelling of ennesby’s name. The archive is huge, i’ll forgive people forgetting a couple story arcs.

What exactly is spin gravity?
If I cut away the rest of the universe so that the only thing that exists is me, am I spinning or non-rotating? Without objects to give me context, could my rate of spin be called ’undefined’? Could I even generate spin gravity? Or is that ‘gravity’ a consequence of the universe at large exerting an influence over me?

Would the spin ‘gravity’ Ennesby faces look similar to gravity from a gravity well? Or rather, how would it be different? How could he tell apart from rotational effects?

- Karfston, accidental consumer of things not fit for consumption


It's a form of inertial pseudo-gravity. One can get the same effect by constantly accelerating in a line - but the spin method allows them to keep accelerating without actually getting faster.
But it's not actually the same as a space-time gravity well.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:46 am 
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My bet: Ennesby still has an annie plant. Petey is lying when he implies that the Pa'anuri can target small plants. He just wants the Toughs disarmed and unarmored to reduce the calamity they can cause while in his cities.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:28 am 
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They can target small annie plants. In their first appearance they made low-profile suit pants explode.

It's possible that their long gun targeting is less precise, but there's no guarantee.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:42 am 
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Karfston wrote:
My tone, I would say, was inferior an in need of correction, but I’m presently unwell and in not a little discomfort here. I would say I have other urgencies, more pressing than looking up the correct spelling of ennesby’s name. The archive is huge, i’ll forgive people forgetting a couple story arcs.

What exactly is spin gravity?
If I cut away the rest of the universe so that the only thing that exists is me, am I spinning or non-rotating? Without objects to give me context, could my rate of spin be called ’undefined’? Could I even generate spin gravity? Or is that ‘gravity’ a consequence of the universe at large exerting an influence over me?

Would the spin ‘gravity’ Ennesby faces look similar to gravity from a gravity well? Or rather, how would it be different? How could he tell apart from rotational effects?

- Karfston, accidental consumer of things not fit for consumption



FrankNorman gave a good explanation, but I think I can better it.
Gravity, to the end user, is indistinguishable from acceleration. Any acceleration.
"Spin-gravity" is centripetal force. You know how the spin cycle in your washing machine throws all the clothes against the wall? That's spin gravity. If you held a delicate instrument close to the washing machine from the outside, or held it still (relative to your house,) but tucked inside the washer, it wouldn't detect any change in gravity just because your machine was spinning.
Basically, everything is accelerating, constantly, while turning a corner. Most of the forces cancel out, but you still have that outward acceleration. This is also the same effect that keeps you from using your cars dashboard as a shelf for loose objects.
In a small can, well, in any can, spin gravity is inferior because it is noticeably stronger the further from the hub you are. So, if your can is only a few tens of feet in radius, your feet are feeling stronger gravity than your head, and you would probably have some problems figuring out your equilibrium. The whole point of the LONG rope between the antimatter plants and the city is to make the difference in gravity from one deck to another not particularly noticeable, but the bottom of that city will still have higher "gravity" than the top of it, by a noticeable bit.
NASA has been thinking on doing something similar for a manned trip to Mars; sticking a module on a cable, with a sensor package or something in the counterweight, (no point in wasting the mass,) so astronauts can have about a .3g trip to the red planet.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:09 am 
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(name here) wrote:
They can target small annie plants. In their first appearance they made low-profile suit pants explode.

It's possible that their long gun targeting is less precise, but there's no guarantee.


Actually they can't that was a design feature of the zoojacks. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-01-01

The Oafa seemed to think small annie plants were too much of a risk though, so they and Petey might know something we don't yet.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
The Oafa seemed to think small annie plants were too much of a risk though, so they and Petey might know something we don't yet.

I'm sure that Pa'anuri can (when up close and personal) detect small annies.

In this case however we are talking gravity fields smaller than wandering asteroids or comets. I doubt they are detectable or separately discernible at that range.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:34 pm 
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Yeah they probably can't see personal Annie plants with their galactic telescope. Still though nobody in the Milky Way knows exactly how that telescope works. So I'm guessing that they don't really want to take chances on just how big an annie plant is too big.

After all the Pa'anuri have been hitting annie plants specifically. Not asteroids or other planetary bodies that have the same gravitational signature. So whatever their natural senses might entail this particular targeting system can distinguish between annie plants and natural gravity sources.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Here’s where I was trying to go with my question.

I’m in space. My frame of reference is spinning relative to the universe.

In general relativity, no frame of reference is special. Why do I, with my frame of reference, suffer from a force trying to pull me apart? In the absence of the universe, I would not expect to be pulled apart by these mysterious forces.

‘zomg! I must have spawned in on top of a white whole that’s trying to blast me apart along an axis! And the stars are zipping past at several orders faster than the speed of light! This universe is trying to kill me, I just know it!’

- Karfston


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:58 pm 
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I honestly don't quite understand your question. If you are alone, then no you won't experience spin gravity.

It's not a force itself. It's caused by your body trying to continue to move in the direction it was accelerated, while the thing you are standing on is changing direction as it spins.

The best way I know to demonstrate this is to take a bucket of water and put it on the end of a rope. Hold the rope and spin in place such that the bottom of the bucket is away from you. The top of the bucket is open and perpendicular to the ground so now the water should be falling out. But instead it is being pressed into the bottom of the bucket by its inertia. This is effectively spin gravity.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Because you're accelerating. You aren't keeping the same inertial frame of reference from moment to moment.
You would have the same problems when sitting on this planet staring up at the stars unless you understand physics.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Karfston wrote:
Here’s where I was trying to go with my question.

I’m in space. My frame of reference is spinning relative to the universe.

In general relativity, no frame of reference is special. Why do I, with my frame of reference, suffer from a force trying to pull me apart? In the absence of the universe, I would not expect to be pulled apart by these mysterious forces.

‘zomg! I must have spawned in on top of a white whole that’s trying to blast me apart along an axis! And the stars are zipping past at several orders faster than the speed of light! This universe is trying to kill me, I just know it!’

- Karfston


If you were in the void of space, and managed to get yourself to spin, (which can be done, if you have another object, say a wheel, preferably a massive one, to spin the other way), you would feel a force trying to spread your arms and legs outward.
The force pulling your left arm out would be canceled out by the force pulling your right arm out, and you, as a whole, would stay in one spot. Objects that happened to be near you wouldn't suddenly find themselves drawn in any faster than they were before you managed to get yourself spinning.

In essence, orbits are like spin gravity. They move just fast enough to exactly neutralize the true gravity of whatever they're orbiting. If the gravity of the sun were turned off, the earth would fly away from it at a rapid rate. I don't have the patience to find out how fast it would fly off right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:35 am 
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Sean wrote:
If the gravity of the sun were turned off, the earth would fly away from it at a rapid rate. I don't have the patience to find out how fast it would fly off right now.

At the same rate as its orbital velocity, or 30 km/s.


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