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 Post subject: Firing from Andromeda?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:19 am 
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Arctic Exhibit
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Even our galaxy is a big, big place.
Do they really have it so fully mapped that the Pan'url can't have one or several bases here?
Especially since they are non-baryonic, hence quite hard to observe.
In-universe, it hasn't been that long since zoojack, which was off the charts.
And that place they went touristing, where they left a simple AI to help the natives...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Their history with the Gatekeepers shows the Pa'anuri have known about our galaxy for a long, long time. I suspect the Zoojack was one of several outposts used by them to survey and map our galaxy. So yeah, they'd have a good idea about who and what to shoot by now. Not a perfect idea obviously, or they'd have started by blasting Petey's cities out of orbit, instead of walking shots towards them.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:44 pm 
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macnut wrote:
Their history with the Gatekeepers shows the Pa'anuri have known about our galaxy for a long, long time. I suspect the Zoojack was one of several outposts used by them to survey and map our galaxy. So yeah, they'd have a good idea about who and what to shoot by now. Not a perfect idea obviously, or they'd have started by blasting Petey's cities out of orbit, instead of walking shots towards them.

They weren't trying to hit Petey's cities, they are trying to hit the control elements for the Core Generator, presumably to either causing it to destroy the galaxy in an out of control reaction again or simply rendering it non-functional resulting in Petey being unable to keep pushing the Pa'anuri forces back and the destruction of all starfaring baryonic life.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Grashtel wrote:
macnut wrote:
Their history with the Gatekeepers shows the Pa'anuri have known about our galaxy for a long, long time. I suspect the Zoojack was one of several outposts used by them to survey and map our galaxy. So yeah, they'd have a good idea about who and what to shoot by now. Not a perfect idea obviously, or they'd have started by blasting Petey's cities out of orbit, instead of walking shots towards them.

They weren't trying to hit Petey's cities, they are trying to hit the control elements for the Core Generator, presumably to either causing it to destroy the galaxy in an out of control reaction again or simply rendering it non-functional resulting in Petey being unable to keep pushing the Pa'anuri forces back and the destruction of all starfaring baryonic life.


They didn't have the sights dialed in, and the fact that the core generators seemingly don't use Annie plants means they can't target them. They were gunning for Petey, personally, because he was the only one actually putting up a fight. They WERE trying to hit Petey's cities and other infrastructure, hoping to damage him enough to make him STOP putting up a fight, I think. Maybe get a lucky shot and kill him. (whether or not the DMEs have a concept of distributed AI is unknown)

They can only 'see' high density power sources, because they can only 'see' gravity. Everything else needs to be interpreted for them.

How they're getting real time targeting data, now, THAT is the big question. It's not the hypernet, because they wouldn't have had to walk their shots.

EDIT: that's what the original poster meant, I believe. They're wondering if civilization has the Milky Wy so fully mapped that the DMEs can't have a hidden base that they're using to fire from or get info back home via.

While its obvious that the Milky Way ISN'T fully mapped at this point, or else there wouldn't be any missing relics like Oisri or the world forge, they've had many opportunities to triangulate the firing point by now. If they can follow people through random Teraports, that means they have a way of knowing where wormholes go and originate, if they catch them soon enough, and opening a centimeter-sized one from Andromeda has to leave a pretty sizable trace to follow.

They may not have exact coordinates, but they'd certainly know which galaxy it was firing from.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:23 pm 
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If you can use the gate copy stuff to pump out billions upon billons of probes you ought to be able to send one to every star in the milky way.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Arctic Exhibit
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Silly question: if firing between galaxies is expensive...

Why not fire from Andromeda?

As in fire *back* from there?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Karfston wrote:
Silly question: if firing between galaxies is expensive...

Why not fire from Andromeda?

As in fire *back* from there?

Probably because Petey hasn't built many long guns there, or was trying to keep his Annie Plant presence to a minimum?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:24 pm 
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If they can afford to fire from Andromeda to the Milky Way, then they can easily afford to counter battery fire any number of long guns that Petey can set up in Andromeda. Plus we haven't actually seen much in the way of him taking the fight to them there.

Mostly he seems to be concerned with rescuing all the baryonic species still in that galaxy.

Wasn't there a bonus comic in one of the books where the simple acting of teraporting got the initiating ship instantly crushed by the Pa'anuri?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:08 am 
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Arctic Exhibit
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Still thinkin there.

Annie plants work by manipulating gravity.

Annie plants fight each other by manipulating gravity in opposing Annie plants...

Line of thought A:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
Make space flat around targets?

Line of thought B:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
String out a line of ships between andromeda and the Milky Way. Use them to contort space, so it’s not flat and now inexpensive to fire across. Fire down a barrel so large it literally spans between galaxies.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:39 am 
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Karfston wrote:
Still thinkin there.

Annie plants work by manipulating gravity.

Annie plants fight each other by manipulating gravity in opposing Annie plants...

Line of thought A:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
Make space flat around targets?

Line of thought B:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
String out a line of ships between andromeda and the Milky Way. Use them to contort space, so it’s not flat and now inexpensive to fire across. Fire down a barrel so large it literally spans between galaxies.

I think the barrel would be exceedingly expensive to make, and works both ways.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:07 am 
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grahamf wrote:
Karfston wrote:
Line of thought B:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
String out a line of ships between andromeda and the Milky Way. Use them to contort space, so it’s not flat and now inexpensive to fire across. Fire down a barrel so large it literally spans between galaxies.

I think the barrel would be exceedingly expensive to make, and works both ways.

The Milky Way galaxy has a star every 4-5 light-years. That seems to be adequate for long gun fire from anywhere to anywhere inside it.

The distance from Andromeda is about 11 times the diameter of the Milky Way, about 2.2 million light-years. So you need to line up about half a million stars across the gap to create the thinnest of gun barrels. You have to terraport the stars into place, because it's the only way to move them fast enough. That is definitely a large-scale activity, even by intergalactic war standards. And there's this really annoying detail:

As far as I can see, you need gigantic amounts of power to terraport across intergalactic space. You can't afford that for entire stars. So you have to build your path through intergalactic space by putting a star into position, letting it bend space, then putting another one beyond it, and so on. And gravity propagates at the speed of light. So it takes about 2.2 million years to build your path.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:41 am 
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John Dallman wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Karfston wrote:
Line of thought B:
Flat space is expensive to fire through.
String out a line of ships between andromeda and the Milky Way. Use them to contort space, so it’s not flat and now inexpensive to fire across. Fire down a barrel so large it literally spans between galaxies.

I think the barrel would be exceedingly expensive to make, and works both ways.

The Milky Way galaxy has a star every 4-5 light-years. That seems to be adequate for long gun fire from anywhere to anywhere inside it.

The distance from Andromeda is about 11 times the diameter of the Milky Way, about 2.2 million light-years. So you need to line up about half a million stars across the gap to create the thinnest of gun barrels. You have to terraport the stars into place, because it's the only way to move them fast enough. That is definitely a large-scale activity, even by intergalactic war standards. And there's this really annoying detail:

As far as I can see, you need gigantic amounts of power to terraport across intergalactic space. You can't afford that for entire stars. So you have to build your path through intergalactic space by putting a star into position, letting it bend space, then putting another one beyond it, and so on. And gravity propagates at the speed of light. So it takes about 2.2 million years to build your path.


Far easier to simultaneously launch five Punch Drunk long-gun boats, built on the Oafan design, into the Andromeda galaxy, and use the surviving three or four to take out the key elements of their core generator.
Hit and run. Or, shoot and scoot.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:00 am 
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Sean wrote:
Far easier to simultaneously launch five Punch Drunk long-gun boats, built on the Oafan design, into the Andromeda galaxy, and use the surviving three or four to take out the key elements of their core generator.
Hit and run. Or, shoot and scoot.



If it really was that simple I think Petey would have done something like that already, and the war with the Pa'anuri would have been won.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Taking out the "rogue stars" in between Milky Way and Andromeda is probably the least expensive option here. But you need a way to find them.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Presumably disabling the core generator requires destroying a considerable percentage of the thousands of stations used to initiate it, at a minimum.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:21 am 
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(name here) wrote:
Presumably disabling the core generator requires destroying a considerable percentage of the thousands of stations used to initiate it, at a minimum.



Which in turn necessitates FINDING them, which considering how fond the DMEs are of Annie plants and Teraports means you're better off copying a few septillion terapedoes and just blanketing Andromeda to kill them directly with Teraports and good old fashioned explosions and gravity pulses.

You'd probably find more of the stations that way.


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