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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Personally what I don't trust is how a hologram is able to hand off an apparently physical data pad that was seemingly part of said hologram one panel earlier.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Entertainment
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Location: Land of the webbed feet
Pressor/tractor beams.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:02 am 
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Reptile House Exhibit
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FreeFlier wrote:
Pressor/tractor beams.

--FreeFlier

Or a really well timed teraport, or she's now holding the hologram generator, and it's using its drive to provide appropriate resistance while projecting both the data pad and the Putzo hologram.

There are lots of ways to manage this with magictech, and the Schlockverse has plenty of magictech.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:44 am 
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Location: Land of the webbed feet
K.I.S.S. . . .

Use a combination of tractor and pressor beams (or antigravity in the pad) to float the pad out, using the holo to mask its approach, and slide it through the holo into Sorlie's hands.

--FreeFlier


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:03 am 
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Reptile House Exhibit
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Even simpler, send Sorlie's own datapad the message, and use the hologram "handover" as a cue that you're doing so.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:50 am 
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Concession Worker
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John Dallman wrote:
Even simpler, send Sorlie's own datapad the message, and use the hologram "handover" as a cue that you're doing so.

sort of like a NFC data tap?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:04 am 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Don't use a dedicated hologram projector. Use a more capable, general purpose, handbrain to project the hologram.
Of course, now you're relying on the ship to "tether" the handbrain, since it probably doesn't have gravitics.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:56 am 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Welcome to key distribution, 29th century.

... actually, what is the year here?

"You could have forged it"
"But I didn't, so trust me" -- ... how do you authenticate a message in the distant future?

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Para and Petey need to have some dialog together. Just because.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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keybounce wrote:
Welcome to key distribution, 29th century.

... actually, what is the year here?

"You could have forged it"
"But I didn't, so trust me" -- ... how do you authenticate a message in the distant future?


Today, here and now, you start with a shared something. That is, one person gives the other person something that can verify that information.
You CAN use a TRUSTED third party, such as Verisign, but only so long as it can be TRUSTED.

Here, the problem is manifold. She didn't get a key straight from Breya Andreyasn, she doesn't have a trusted browser to visit a trusted key repository in order to access Breya Andreyasn's public key; visiting it on the thing Putzo touched could take her anywhere and only report she made it to the trusted key repository.

She has something which Putzo could have hacked to do a man-in-the-middle attack, which contains a message, purported from Breya Andreyasn, but which could have been written by anyone. She's stuck in Plato's Cave and knows it but can't do anything about it. Or so it seems.

Hopefully, she has some back-channel she can use to verify the information on the main channel. This might be something like remembering her recent implants and using those to contact her old handler to contact the government via normal channels to verify her name is on the list of appointments for Ambassador. That still doesn't make it impossible for Putzo to mess with the connection between her old handler and the government database, but it makes it much harder.
Alternately, she can contact a third party; one whom she can verify via a shared secret, (something along the lines of "do you remember that summer? What color was the car?") before asking them to verify it through channels that are presumably secure. The answer can be encoded the same way. ("Same summer, if yes, tell me the direction the cabin faced, if no, make up a direction.")
It does require a shared secret, (or two) that A. both sides WILL remember accurately, or at least the same, and B. can't be pulled up, via any amount of computing, by a third party. (Don't use birthdate, mothers maiden name, street you grew up on, etc, as all those are listed somewhere you don't even remember, such as the morgue at the local paper, or the microfiche collection for that same newspaper which Google now has.) This is, naturally, a difficult thing to manage on the fly.

Fortunately, if her implants are still working, or can be made to work, THOSE can be the shared, pre-established, communications channel. And a whole lot more reliable than whether or not both she and an old childhood friend can accurately recall tidbits about a summer vacation from half a lifetime ago, without that same information being enshrined, somehow, within her social media feed from that time, (cabin in the background of a photograph of the lake, for instance, allowing a third party to determine which direction it had to have been facing).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 pm
Posts: 421
Sean wrote:
keybounce wrote:
Welcome to key distribution, 29th century.

... actually, what is the year here?

"You could have forged it"
"But I didn't, so trust me" -- ... how do you authenticate a message in the distant future?


Today, here and now, you start with a shared something. That is, one person gives the other person something that can verify that information.
You CAN use a TRUSTED third party, such as Verisign, but only so long as it can be TRUSTED.

Here, the problem is manifold. She didn't get a key straight from Breya Andreyasn, she doesn't have a trusted browser to visit a trusted key repository in order to access Breya Andreyasn's public key; visiting it on the thing Putzo touched could take her anywhere and only report she made it to the trusted key repository.

She has something which Putzo could have hacked to do a man-in-the-middle attack, which contains a message, purported from Breya Andreyasn, but which could have been written by anyone. She's stuck in Plato's Cave and knows it but can't do anything about it. Or so it seems.

Hopefully, she has some back-channel she can use to verify the information on the main channel. This might be something like remembering her recent implants and using those to contact her old handler to contact the government via normal channels to verify her name is on the list of appointments for Ambassador. That still doesn't make it impossible for Putzo to mess with the connection between her old handler and the government database, but it makes it much harder.
Alternately, she can contact a third party; one whom she can verify via a shared secret, (something along the lines of "do you remember that summer? What color was the car?") before asking them to verify it through channels that are presumably secure. The answer can be encoded the same way. ("Same summer, if yes, tell me the direction the cabin faced, if no, make up a direction.")
It does require a shared secret, (or two) that A. both sides WILL remember accurately, or at least the same, and B. can't be pulled up, via any amount of computing, by a third party. (Don't use birthdate, mothers maiden name, street you grew up on, etc, as all those are listed somewhere you don't even remember, such as the morgue at the local paper, or the microfiche collection for that same newspaper which Google now has.) This is, naturally, a difficult thing to manage on the fly.

Fortunately, if her implants are still working, or can be made to work, THOSE can be the shared, pre-established, communications channel. And a whole lot more reliable than whether or not both she and an old childhood friend can accurately recall tidbits about a summer vacation from half a lifetime ago, without that same information being enshrined, somehow, within her social media feed from that time, (cabin in the background of a photograph of the lake, for instance, allowing a third party to determine which direction it had to have been facing).

If she's that paranoid though, Putzho can probably pull off a Laughing Man and use her own implants to make her see and hear what he wants her to, even if she manages face to face communication.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:38 am 
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Monkey House Exhibit
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:10 pm
Posts: 481
sotanaht wrote:
Sean wrote:
keybounce wrote:
Welcome to key distribution, 29th century.

... actually, what is the year here?

"You could have forged it"
"But I didn't, so trust me" -- ... how do you authenticate a message in the distant future?


Today, here and now, you start with a shared something. That is, one person gives the other person something that can verify that information.
You CAN use a TRUSTED third party, such as Verisign, but only so long as it can be TRUSTED.

Here, the problem is manifold. She didn't get a key straight from Breya Andreyasn, she doesn't have a trusted browser to visit a trusted key repository in order to access Breya Andreyasn's public key; visiting it on the thing Putzo touched could take her anywhere and only report she made it to the trusted key repository.

She has something which Putzo could have hacked to do a man-in-the-middle attack, which contains a message, purported from Breya Andreyasn, but which could have been written by anyone. She's stuck in Plato's Cave and knows it but can't do anything about it. Or so it seems.

Hopefully, she has some back-channel she can use to verify the information on the main channel. This might be something like remembering her recent implants and using those to contact her old handler to contact the government via normal channels to verify her name is on the list of appointments for Ambassador. That still doesn't make it impossible for Putzo to mess with the connection between her old handler and the government database, but it makes it much harder.
Alternately, she can contact a third party; one whom she can verify via a shared secret, (something along the lines of "do you remember that summer? What color was the car?") before asking them to verify it through channels that are presumably secure. The answer can be encoded the same way. ("Same summer, if yes, tell me the direction the cabin faced, if no, make up a direction.")
It does require a shared secret, (or two) that A. both sides WILL remember accurately, or at least the same, and B. can't be pulled up, via any amount of computing, by a third party. (Don't use birthdate, mothers maiden name, street you grew up on, etc, as all those are listed somewhere you don't even remember, such as the morgue at the local paper, or the microfiche collection for that same newspaper which Google now has.) This is, naturally, a difficult thing to manage on the fly.

Fortunately, if her implants are still working, or can be made to work, THOSE can be the shared, pre-established, communications channel. And a whole lot more reliable than whether or not both she and an old childhood friend can accurately recall tidbits about a summer vacation from half a lifetime ago, without that same information being enshrined, somehow, within her social media feed from that time, (cabin in the background of a photograph of the lake, for instance, allowing a third party to determine which direction it had to have been facing).

If she's that paranoid though, Putzho can probably pull off a Laughing Man and use her own implants to make her see and hear what he wants her to, even if she manages face to face communication.


...I'm quite Shirow he'd do something like that, if he felt the need.
Such a shell game might even have a ghost of a chance of not being detected, but it'd be planting an appleseed of destruction if it were.


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