The Nightstar Zoo

Nightstar IRC Network - irc.nightstar.net
It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:24 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:02 pm 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm
Posts: 1355
Are they trying to track down the dinosaurs? Those don't look like earthlings so i may have the timeline confused.

_________________
Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:14 am 
Offline
Arctic Exhibit
Arctic Exhibit

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:35 pm
Posts: 58
Looks like these guys are the "Hrathi". They're the ones who were studying the guys who stole the dinosaurs.


What I find intriguing is that they're in Sol, with what looks like a space station, not a semi-isolated science ship (unless that is a ship. The design reads more "Station" to me, but who knows)

What's here (54 million years ago) that they're willing to build that kind of infrastructure for? The other guys were just passing through/running for their lives and probed Earth, they didn't seem to have any sort of presence here.

And I can't really tell where the station was set up either.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:49 pm 
Offline
Carnie
Carnie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:44 pm
Posts: 2670
Daniel the Broc wrote:
What's here (54 million years ago) that they're willing to build that kind of infrastructure for?

Steampunk dinosaur artifacts, clearly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:58 pm 
Offline
Safari Exhibit
Safari Exhibit

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:03 am
Posts: 107
Location: SoCal
Wow - per 12/9, one group deployed a probe 8 million years previously to this (12/9) panel, and it still works?
For that matter, their civilization still exists and speaks the probe's language?
And that (12/9) was dated 65 million years ago, when our dinosaur-killer hit.
1/14 is dated 54 million years ago, or 11 million years after the 12/9 strip.
And this 20 million-year-old artifact is identifiable? And they want to apply power to it?!???

wow...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:40 am 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:40 am
Posts: 543
Location: Eugene, OR
Narrative causality being what it is in this comic, the automatic dismissal of the possibility makes it a near certainty.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:06 pm 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm
Posts: 1355
well that can only end well.

_________________
Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:18 pm 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 pm
Posts: 440
There are SO many reasons why "call them at ask" shouldn't work, and they should know that it shouldn't work, that fear of being shot at for doing it doesn't even make the list. It's been 11 million years, the node on the other end is likely just as buried and forgotten as the one they just dug up, EVEN IF the alien race in question still exists. Also given that this particular race is already advanced enough for interstellar travel and has no idea who the others are, it stands to reason that they aren't around anymore anyway or if they are around, they aren't in contact with the rest of the galaxy and therefor aren't accepting calls.

The absolute best case scenario they could reasonably hope for is to call the linked node, and somehow use that call to trace the node and find wherever it ended up, and then do some archaeology to figure out what happened on the other end. Even that makes some assumptions about the technology that I don't think actually work in universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:08 pm 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Land of the webbed feet
I can't decide if Orange is really that blase' about the possibilities, or if s/he has already thought this all the way through to the conclusion that the advanced race is extinct by now and is just winding up Blue.

Winding up the boss can be fun, especially if you do it in ways they can't or won't get revenge for.

--FreeFlier


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:12 am 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:29 am
Posts: 641
FreeFlier wrote:
Winding up the boss can be fun, especially if you do it in ways they can't or won't get revenge for.

--FreeFlier
Depends on how tightly the fellow thinks the operational security of their home planet should be. Shooting the guy about to summon a horrible horde of genocidal aliens may be a valid response, even if he is your underling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:23 pm 
Offline
Aquarium Exhibit
Aquarium Exhibit

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:50 am
Posts: 3
Are the two people in this comic the same as earlier, are they over 10 million years old? And the dinosaur too I wonder, because he looks like the same species after 10 million years and that's not gonna happen naturally. What kind of mental modifications are required to live 10 million years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:59 am 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm
Posts: 1355
SchlockCommenter wrote:
Are the two people in this comic the same as earlier, are they over 10 million years old? And the dinosaur too I wonder, because he looks like the same species after 10 million years and that's not gonna happen naturally. What kind of mental modifications are required to live 10 million years.

I suspect they are the descendants. They may be in an environment that discourages evolution, or maybe this particular dinosaur, since he works in the arceology/ancient tech department got modifications to look like his ancestors.

_________________
Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:22 pm 
Offline
Safari Exhibit
Safari Exhibit

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:38 am
Posts: 146
They could be travelling at ultrarelativistic speed, in which case they could be the same individuals.

_________________
--------
Desperate Deployer of the Relativistic Marshmallow Gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 pm 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:10 am
Posts: 516
grahamf wrote:
SchlockCommenter wrote:
Are the two people in this comic the same as earlier, are they over 10 million years old? And the dinosaur too I wonder, because he looks like the same species after 10 million years and that's not gonna happen naturally. What kind of mental modifications are required to live 10 million years.

I suspect they are the descendants. They may be in an environment that discourages evolution, or maybe this particular dinosaur, since he works in the arceology/ancient tech department got modifications to look like his ancestors.


It's not like the current galaxy has recently gotten treatments to enable effective immortality that almost certainly existed millions of years prior in other cycles OH WAIT :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:19 am 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 808
Kendrakirai wrote:
grahamf wrote:
SchlockCommenter wrote:
Are the two people in this comic the same as earlier, are they over 10 million years old? And the dinosaur too I wonder, because he looks like the same species after 10 million years and that's not gonna happen naturally. What kind of mental modifications are required to live 10 million years.

I suspect they are the descendants. They may be in an environment that discourages evolution, or maybe this particular dinosaur, since he works in the arceology/ancient tech department got modifications to look like his ancestors.


It's not like the current galaxy has recently gotten treatments to enable effective immortality that almost certainly existed millions of years prior in other cycles OH WAIT :D

It's one thing to have the possibility of living 10 million years, it's another to actually pull it off. Look at the Gatekeepers, they are literally growing memory extensions from their foreheads.

SchlockCommenter is right, it's weirder for the dinos to NOT be modified. Even if those are the same individuals as from 10 million years ago.

Presumably, the red and blue guys already had whatever modifications were needed to deal with living long enough to experience large numbers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:59 pm 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:55 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: City of Brotherly Love
It occurs to me that the paranoia being expressed by those speaking against contact on both sides of this exchange is the kind of paranoia that, expressed to a certain conclusion, can lead to starfaring species exterminating other intelligent species "just in case" they might be hostile. Now the ones that rescued the sapient dinosaurs obviously didn't think this way, but they are paranoid enough to not even want to risk contact with another species that seems to be as technologically advanced as they are, "just in case".

This whole exchange makes me wonder if the extinction cycles that have recorded where due to extermination wars launched by excessively paranoid races. Someone(s) other than the Pa'anuri, I mean.

_________________
The MacNut
Artist and writer of The Vanguard, a space opera superhero comic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 pm 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm
Posts: 1355
I think we'll find out soon since the call was answered.

_________________
Rule of thumb is that if you need to use a squeegee, they're at least Laz-4.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:08 am 
Offline
Aquarium Exhibit
Aquarium Exhibit

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:24 am
Posts: 25
rleggett wrote:
They could be travelling at ultrarelativistic speed, in which case they could be the same individuals.


We actually know they'd been traveling for 8 million years when they picked up the dinosaurs, which itself was 11 million years before the Hrathi found their probe.

So that's 19 million years to travel half a million light years, or an average of 0.026 c. So that's basically no time dilation relative to Earth.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:51 am 
Offline
Arctic Exhibit
Arctic Exhibit

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:10 pm
Posts: 63
Given the level of tech, with the exception of sexual selection or purposeful artificial selection, I don't see how there could be any evolutionary forces acting on the dinos.

Maybe genetic drift, depending on how many were saved. But they seem like they would be beyond natural selection, so I can see them having a relatively stable appearance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:52 pm 
Offline
Carnie
Carnie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:44 pm
Posts: 2670
Chainlynx wrote:
But they seem like they would be beyond natural selection...

Only the extinct are beyond natural selection.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:24 am 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Land of the webbed feet
Intelligence and technology seem to significantly slow natural selection, because then individuals who would have died are kept alive by the others.

--FreeFlier


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:05 am 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:29 am
Posts: 641
FreeFlier wrote:
Intelligence and technology seem to significantly slow natural selection, because then individuals who would have died are kept alive by the others.

--FreeFlier


Intelligence and technology seem to significantly slow natural selection, because then individuals who would have lived are killed by the others.

It works both ways. And it (natural selection) is slowed by both too! Ironic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:34 am 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:55 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: City of Brotherly Love
The best solution to this IMO is to use technology and our intellect to take control of our own evolution via genetic and other forms of bio-engineering.

_________________
The MacNut
Artist and writer of The Vanguard, a space opera superhero comic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:22 pm 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:10 pm
Posts: 491
I know that Eugenics has been a dirty word since around the 40's, but I think we need to seriously consider gene-therapy for anyone who nature would have culled. Heart murmer? Counsel to always use in-vitro. possibly combined with a vasectomy or tubal ligation. Early onset cancer? Counsel to always use in-vitro. possibly combined with a vasectomy or tubal ligation. Predispostion towards SIDS? Counsel to always use in-vitro. possibly combined with a vasectomy or tubal ligation.

Or, when the technology gets there, clone up gonads that are bio-compatible with the individual, and almost exactly the same genetically, but lack the flaw which would have plucked the individual from nature, before he or she had a chance to breed (much).

The PROBLEMS I see are two.
A. The possibility of "eliminating" some potentially valuable trait as an unwanted anomaly. (Over in another webcomic, one of the characters has a modified form of dwarfism, which makes him more radiation tolerant.)
B. The tendency of using medicine to shape the individual towards what best suits the society, rather than towards the needs of the individual. (In a society that has been guilty of over-prescribing Ritalin, how long would it be before anyone not a child of the richest, or the poorest, would be genetically conditioned to a life of mediocrity? A worker drone, in other words.)

Granted ,for A. there is the truth that even a culled genetic trait could be recorded, for later recreation, should it prove advantageous. Although, the potential benefits may not have been adequately cataloged before the trait was archived.
I'm mostly worried about B.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:51 pm 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Land of the webbed feet
Eugenics is a dirty word for excellent reason.

Every time anything in that direction has been implemented, it has been abused.

Every single time.

Even in the United States. My grandmother was pressured to have her toddler daughter sterilized so she wouldn't pass on her disability, never mind that it was due to a very high fever in infancy. (Amazingly, the doctor survived this!)

Many other parents thought that the doctor knew what was best and caved to the pressure.

Children were sterilized for things as trivial as being left-handed! Of for having been injured during delivery!

In this context, "counseling" is just another word for pressuring people into doing evil things.

--FreeFlier


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:12 pm 
Offline
Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 3:55 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: City of Brotherly Love
Yes, Eugenics has a bad reputation that is at least partly deserved. This will have to be overcome though, because of a huge problem in human evolution.

The problem is that humans evolved to live a brutish and short life as the smartest hunter-gatherers in any reasonably livable environment on this planet. But then, thanks to those smarts, we discovered it would be easier to fence in more docile prey animals so we didn't have to travel dozens of miles to find and chase them, and also learned we could grow plants with edible bits close by our homes so we didn't have to search far and wide to gather them. So then the hunter-gatherer lifestyle gradually ended for most humans and civilization grew.

But our bodies are still those of hunter-gatherers, and under civilization that causes problems. The obesity issue is just one example of this; we evolved to store fat on our bodies as a hedge against lean times when prey animals and edible plants were harder to find. But under civilization lack of food is rarely a problem. Also people no longer needing to be as active (since most of us no longer have to hunt for or grow our own food) means all those extra calories are more likely to pile up on us.

We modern, civilized humans usually have to take deliberate, concerned effort to avoid becoming obese (i.e being more active, watching our diet, etc.) which is a considerable act of will when the trends of civilization (automobile/mass transit travel, office work, convenient mass media entertainment etc.,) are encouraging us to become more sedentary. And that's just one of the problems caused by the fact that modern humans are far removed from the wandering hunters-gatherers we evolved to be.

The obesity problem could be dealt with by engineering human bodies to not be so quick to store fat, by giving us all naturally high metabolisms, like those people you may know who seem to eat anything in any amount and never gain an ounce. Eventually this catches up with them as they age, their metabolism slows down, and they then start pilling on the pounds. What if it didn't have to be that way, for everyone?

_________________
The MacNut
Artist and writer of The Vanguard, a space opera superhero comic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:25 pm 
Offline
Carnie
Carnie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:44 pm
Posts: 2670
macnut wrote:
Yes, Eugenics has a bad reputation that is at least partly deserved.

Not, it only has a bad reputation when we talk about it's usage on humans. When we discuss it's usage on all the other animals we've used it on, it tends to have a positive rep.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:16 pm 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:10 pm
Posts: 491
My concern is, if we don't pursue correcting the issues, things which would have caused a person do die, before they became old enough to produce children, and are thus reasonably rare, will pile up, and it will become necessary, not a modern convenience, but necessary, for a large proportion of the population to live near medical care. If someone would normally die at 10, due to a genetic defect, but due to modern medicine, both pharmaceutical and surgical, they live into their 70's or 80's (or older, but it really only matters that they routinely live into their 50's, or even late 30's,) then the trait that would have died with them gets passed on to their descendants.
We go from being a species that can live pretty much everywhere, to one that can live pretty much anywhere...provided there's a hospital nearby, or a mailbox to receive medicine in.

Yes, we will PROBABLY abuse it: Probably turn all middle-class kids into super rules abiding, largely unimaginative, worker bees, but I fear the alternative may well be WORSE.

Again, if it's a trait that WOULD have killed the kid before he was old enough to be a parent, make him or her take steps, in order to have a kid of their own, that let us ensure the offspring DOESN'T have, and DOESN'T carry, that LETHAL trait.

The alternative is to evolve from being a weed, and rather hard to kill, to being a hot house flower, that can be killed because someone left the door to the greenhouse open on a cool spring day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:08 pm 
Offline
Reptile House Exhibit
Reptile House Exhibit

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Posts: 286
Sean wrote:
My concern is, if we don't pursue correcting the issues, things which would have caused a person do die, before they became old enough to produce children, and are thus reasonably rare, will pile up, and it will become necessary, not a modern convenience, but necessary, for a large proportion of the population to live near medical care. If someone would normally die at 10, due to a genetic defect, but due to modern medicine, both pharmaceutical and surgical, they live into their 70's or 80's (or older, but it really only matters that they routinely live into their 50's, or even late 30's,) then the trait that would have died with them gets passed on to their descendants.
We go from being a species that can live pretty much everywhere, to one that can live pretty much anywhere...provided there's a hospital nearby, or a mailbox to receive medicine in.

Yes, we will PROBABLY abuse it: Probably turn all middle-class kids into super rules abiding, largely unimaginative, worker bees, but I fear the alternative may well be WORSE.

Again, if it's a trait that WOULD have killed the kid before he was old enough to be a parent, make him or her take steps, in order to have a kid of their own, that let us ensure the offspring DOESN'T have, and DOESN'T carry, that LETHAL trait.

The alternative is to evolve from being a weed, and rather hard to kill, to being a hot house flower, that can be killed because someone left the door to the greenhouse open on a cool spring day.

It's a long term concern, and thus the solution can be, "kick the can down the road for 50 years," there's an excellent chance that by then the routine treatment for such conditions may well be to use a retrovirus to correct the condition in the patient and in all future descendants.

Given two "solutions" (a) eugenics on humans and (b) do nothing and the problem will likely be solved by other means a few hundred generations before it become serious. I'll take (b) for $2,000 Alex.

Mind you, I expect us to be re-engineering ourselves and our children eventually, and people being people, I expect us to do it badly and with great inequality in results. But that's unavoidable, people are people. Let's not make it worse by claiming some people have a duty to not reproduce based on largely arbitrary grounds (and which conditions are bad enough to need to not be able to reproduce is in fact largely arbitrary).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:29 pm 
Offline
Monkey House Exhibit
Monkey House Exhibit

Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:10 pm
Posts: 491
Doug Lampert wrote:
Sean wrote:
My concern is, if we don't pursue correcting the issues, things which would have caused a person do die, before they became old enough to produce children, and are thus reasonably rare, will pile up, and it will become necessary, not a modern convenience, but necessary, for a large proportion of the population to live near medical care. If someone would normally die at 10, due to a genetic defect, but due to modern medicine, both pharmaceutical and surgical, they live into their 70's or 80's (or older, but it really only matters that they routinely live into their 50's, or even late 30's,) then the trait that would have died with them gets passed on to their descendants.
We go from being a species that can live pretty much everywhere, to one that can live pretty much anywhere...provided there's a hospital nearby, or a mailbox to receive medicine in.

Yes, we will PROBABLY abuse it: Probably turn all middle-class kids into super rules abiding, largely unimaginative, worker bees, but I fear the alternative may well be WORSE.

Again, if it's a trait that WOULD have killed the kid before he was old enough to be a parent, make him or her take steps, in order to have a kid of their own, that let us ensure the offspring DOESN'T have, and DOESN'T carry, that LETHAL trait.

The alternative is to evolve from being a weed, and rather hard to kill, to being a hot house flower, that can be killed because someone left the door to the greenhouse open on a cool spring day.

It's a long term concern, and thus the solution can be, "kick the can down the road for 50 years," there's an excellent chance that by then the routine treatment for such conditions may well be to use a retrovirus to correct the condition in the patient and in all future descendants.

Given two "solutions" (a) eugenics on humans and (b) do nothing and the problem will likely be solved by other means a few hundred generations before it become serious. I'll take (b) for $2,000 Alex.

Mind you, I expect us to be re-engineering ourselves and our children eventually, and people being people, I expect us to do it badly and with great inequality in results. But that's unavoidable, people are people. Let's not make it worse by claiming some people have a duty to not reproduce based on largely arbitrary grounds (and which conditions are bad enough to need to not be able to reproduce is in fact largely arbitrary).


I'm not saying don't reproduce. I'm saying use in vitro so the zygote can be checked for whatever it is you have, that nearly killed you, and either clipped out of THAT zygote, or one that lacks that particular problem can be chosen for implantation.
I'm saying don't reproduce NATURALLY.
Really, what I'm saying is just an easier version of what you advocated. I'm just saying let's not wait until we can fix the whole person to start fixing their offspring.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:49 pm 
Offline
Entertainment
Entertainment

Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:40 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Land of the webbed feet
That will still be abused.

Look at the problem China is having as a result of their one-child policy: people are aborting female fetuses in preference to male . . . result is that they're having a severe sex imbalance, and it's getting worse.

Western people aren't any smarter . . . they'll screw it up too.


As far as the fat issue, we haven't had time to get that sorted out . . . it's only been since about 1950 that any significant percentage of the population was able to be overweight, and much of the world still can't get enough food for it to be an issue.

--FreeFlier


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group