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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 1:36 am 
All of you Starfire fans may as well just pack up and go home now.

Honest.

When you're building a new team, it's always important to keep a clear eye on who's going to be leading the shindig. Someone who can handle the responsibility. Somebody with experience. Somebody with charisma. Somebody, when the chips are down, everybody else is going to look to because, y'know, that guy will know what to do. How? He just does.

This is why, when the chips are down, every pair of eyes in the JLA turns to Superman. In the Avengers, they look to Captain America. In the old days of the New Mutants, they looked to Doug Ramsey.

Okay, okay, I was kidding on that last one. Just making sure you guys were still paying attention. :D

So. With all that in mind, let's see what kind of leader we can find, and build a team around him, shall we?

1) Tempest

Image

"What's that? You want Aquaboy to lead this group?"

Well, shyeah. We need someone from the actual old guard who's still, y'know, recognizable to keep this team going.

Can't be Flash, he's graduated to the Justice League. Nightwing's busy with the Outsiders. Troia's dead. Arsenal... don't get me started on Arsenal.

Image

The former Aqualad, however, has grown considerably as a character, evolving past his days of being generally useless (you know I'm right) to a stand-up, charismatic hero of his own. Having received a boost in power (the ability to control certain elements), and a snazzy new costume (no more short-pants here), he's primed to be the head honcho of a new team.

What he brings to the party: A sizable amount of power, leadership (you know, that whole Atlantis thing and all), and a touch of the old-school mixed in with the new.

I gotta do something about the "faaaaammmmiiiilllllyyyyyy" people wanting to hunt me down, as well. I don't need them skulking outside my window.

2) Raven

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Repeat after me, moppets. "Character conflict is a good thing."

C'mon, once again. With feeling.

Good. Now, while we're on this "look to the past to see the future" kick, we should all remember that the Titans have never had a character who presented more conflict, both outside and inside the team, as Raven. Such events included forcing Kid Flash (through the wonder of psionics) to fall in love with her, the entire "Dark Raven" storyline, and the fact that her daddy-dearest is Trigon, a nearly-omnipotent other-dimensional being that could probably make Darkseid pause for a second.

Plus, that costume is just awesome. And you know it.

Hey, it worked for Wolfman and Perez, it'll work here.

Plus, as a bonus, she and Tempest have....history together, to add to the spice.

Image

Now, honestly, as of late she's been getting slightly reduced, attitude-wise, to a rather bland and uninteresting character who seemed focused around "tell me your feeeeeelings, nothing more than feeeeeeeelings" as well as "Kory, Donna, you're both my siiiiiiiiisters".

Well, screw that.

In the newest Titans run, she's been (albeit kicking and screaming) brought back somewhat into the 'gee, can we really trust her?' mode, and her darker side is being dredged up something fierce.

We likes. We likes a lot.

We want the bitch brought back. :D

What she brings to the party: One more for the "faaaaammmmiiiilllllyyyyyy" people to choke on, and other than that...

...do you really need to be asking me that? :wink:

3) Beast Boy

Image

Think back to all of your favorite moments that involved the "new" Teen Titans. Go on, I'll wait.

Okay, got some? How many of them involved this guy in some key way?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

DC, for many years, kept trying to suck everything that made this character fun away from him. They made him a serious, thoughtful character.

To quote above, 'well, screw that.'

Gar Logan has always been the lovable "clown" of the Teen Titans, and there's no reason why that should change. It made it all the more interesting when he suddenly started living up to his full potential. (You might recall, he was the character who managed to go mano-a-mano with Deathstroke the Terminator, and seemed to be about to win, a fact that also had Slade rather surprised at the time.)

It will be interesting to see his growth when he finds himself as a 'go-between' for the old and new generation of Titans. One of the old-guard who suddenly finds himself responsible for setting a good example for the kiddies. The one person on the team who can be talked to openly by both the older members and the newer ones.

What he brings to the party: Look out, Donna Troy lovers, we've got a new 'heart' of the team. :D

Rakka ducks the thrown stones and spears.

4) Robin

But... not Tim Drake.

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Sorry folks, it's officially canon. Tim Drake has retired as Robin (but he'll be back one day, we all know it) and Stephanie Brown has taken his place.

Who's Stephanie Brown, you say? Well, maybe you'd recognize her under the name "The Spoiler"?

...no?

Geez, people. What am I going to do with you?

Stephanie Brown, daughter of the longtime loser "The Cluemaster" (yes, that's right, there's somebody out there so lame, they thought stealing an idea from "The Riddler" was a good idea), decided that if her father was going to be a villain, she may as well go out and be a hero.

Personally, I liked her old costume. Sexy, yet mysterious.

Image

She and Robin developed a 'thing' over time, but it also lead to some teaching for the new up and coming superheroine. See, she was of the mindset that if someone was trying to kill her with a chainsaw, it was just fine and dandy to leave him behind to save her own life when the building started to come down.

Image

(Admit it, guys, if you had an attractive young heroine your own age gallivanting around with you when the world is supposedly coming to and end, and she recommends that instead of going around saving people, you two slip off and she sees if she can't fit into your thermo-lined tights that you'd be tempted, too.)

But, she grew as a character. She learned lessons from the Huntress and Black Canary on how to be a hero. She's helped in the training of the new Batgirl. She had a baby. (Oh, that's right, she was a teenage mother. There's a character point for you.) Batman started to approve of her as a heroine as well. And now, she's the new Robin.

And you've just got to have a Robin on this team. :D

What she brings to the party: Attitude with a capital "A", and a sense of being the realist and a darker attitude at times on how to handle villains than you might expect from a "Robin."

5) Kid Flash

Image

Lately, Bart Allen has been getting awesome.

I have every issue of Impulse. And let's be honest. In the beginning, he was a joke. The concept was there... but they never took it anywhere really interesting.

Now, however... he's suddenly on his way to being the greatest speedster ever. He's capable of many of the same feats as his Grandfather (one Barry Allen), he has a photographic memory (He cleaned out the San Francisco public library in under a half hour. And remembers everything he read), and has been trained by some of the best.

And he's still not even ten years old yet.

Yeah, remember, he was aged at superspeed. He's still only, like, 6, tops?

Oh, and there's also his current drive to show people he's taking things seriously. A nice contrast, personality-wise against our Robin who used to keep donning a costume to impress a certain boy wonder.

What he brings to the party: A touch of naivety, and every team should have someone that moves at superspeed.

6) Mary Marvel

This is the cincher, folks. This is why you won't have a Donna Troy coming back. This is also why I refuse to bring in the new 'Wonder Girl'. There's someone so much more INTERESTING out there. Someone sweet, kind, and all-together innocent who honestly believes in the best in people.

Someone who packs enough power to kick Captain Atom's ass up and down the street. :D

Image

Mary Marvel, the sweet, charming 16 year old who packs a good chunk of the power of Shazam has always been underplayed in everything. Which is too bad, cause she can be so interesting. She made regular appearances in the end of Peter David's "Supergirl" run, and she was in the 6-issue "Formerly Known As The Justice League".

Besides, Captain Marvel gets to play with the JSA, and Captain Marvel, Jr. gets to hang with the Outsiders now and again... it's time the more interesting member of the trio got to shine for a while in a mainstream book.

What she brings to the party: Brute power, a genuine heart to the team with a want to look over people, a fresh face, pure innocence, and many opportunities to have her mention "Hoppy, The Marvel Bunny."

I love that rabbit.

Well, that's the first six, folks. We've got something old, something new, something borrowed, and something that can punch you until you're blue.

Hold onto your hats, cause from here on out, it gets controversial.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 6:01 pm 
Excellent choices (with one exception) for team members, Rakka.

Tempest: I loved his miniseries and the 'novice sorceror' bit really rounds out his usefulness as a hero. Combine that with his being one of the few heroes to have a real family and you've got yourself a heck of an interesting character.

Changeling: Another good legacy choice. My one request is that his humor be more taunting like Spiderman's. I'm really tired of seeing him used as the comic-relief idiot/loser. I agree that he would make a good go-between for the older and young members and would be a great big brother figure for Kid Flash-- he certainly understands what it means to lose family and as a result, keep being uprooted. I'm just going to ignore DC's idiotic revival of the original Doom Patrol, since it totally destroys continuity.

Kid Flash: I loved him as Impulse and I love the new version maybe even more. 'Nuff said. :)

Spoiler- er-Robin: Same as Kid Flash, plus she has some street smarts that the others often lack. Nice way of grounding the team.

Mary Marvel: I haven't really read Shazam in a long time, but I did like her appearance in Young Justice and Supergirl, plus the team needs at least one super-strong hero who flies. I think its in the Union rules.

Raven: Okay, time for us to disagree. I have never much cared for her. Except when she was written by a truly exceptional writer, Raven usually devolved into more of a plot device than a character. She either manipulated the team into missions or rescuing her from her growing madness/evil WAS the mission. The only version of Raven that I've really liked to date is the one from the new animated Titans cartoon. A goth chick with an excuse for sulleness is far more amusing than yet another emotionless, scheming mystic. Doc Strange anyone? Or Syzygy Darklock, Dr Fate or even Mr. Spock.

Now, who to replace her? This is a tough one, there aren't a lot of available applicants at the moment, so I have to poach from another team, which is okay, because they aren't using her anyways (at least as far as I'm concerned).

Stargirl: She brings power to the team and a take-no-s**t attitude. She's a nice bridge between the worldliness of Robin and the naivetee of Mary Marvel. She also has a connection to Mary through her brief involvement with Billy Batson. An interesting subplot would be Mary trying to reunite the two former Jsa'ers and the repercussions that would follow. I can see the three ladies practically dominating the team, much to the frustration of its male members. She also brings her step-dad, Pat Dugan, to act as a gadgeteer and general Mr Fixit for the team.

So, let me go get my asbestos overcoat and then let the flames begin! :P
Loki


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 7:53 pm 
I'm going to hold off on replying fully until I get my other six posted.

Cause you guys are just gonna be scratching your heads and going "HUH?" :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:54 am 
Rakka wrote:

I gotta do something about the "faaaaammmmiiiilllllyyyyyy" people wanting to hunt me down, as well. I don't need them skulking outside my window.


May I suggest flashing them, the resulting collapse of neural pathways due to an overload of the synpasis, will make it easier to for the cops to arrive in time and arrest them for stalking. :P


Rakka wrote:
2) Raven

Repeat after me, moppets. "Character conflict is a good thing."

C'mon, once again. With feeling.


We likes. We likes a lot.

We want the bitch brought back. :D

What she brings to the party: One more for the "faaaaammmmiiiilllllyyyyyy" people to choke on, and other than that...

...do you really need to be asking me that? :wink:


Come on Rakka, that whole Trigon storyline has been done to death. It's even worse than the constant reharping of the Phoenix saga with Jean Grey. Heck, she's even the reason why we got that Wilderbeast society storyline with an insane/possessed Jericho. Nominate someone else, I'd even prefer Starfire over her, and I don't like Kory one damned bit. Heck, I'd even prefer Arsenal over her, and I don't like Speedy either. (Rather surprised they never started schtoinking together, they're perfect for each other.)


Rakka wrote:

What he brings to the party: Look out, Donna Troy lovers, we've got a new 'heart' of the team. :D

Rakka ducks the thrown stones and spears.

4) Robin

But... not Tim Drake.

Sorry folks, it's officially canon. Tim Drake has retired as Robin (but he'll be back one day, we all know it) and Stephanie Brown has taken his place.

Who's Stephanie Brown, you say? Well, maybe you'd recognize her under the name "The Spoiler"?

She and Robin developed a 'thing' over time, but it also lead to some teaching for the new up and coming superheroine. See, she was of the mindset that if someone was trying to kill her with a chainsaw, it was just fine and dandy to leave him behind to save her own life when the building started to come down.

But, she grew as a character. She learned lessons from the Huntress and Black Canary on how to be a hero. She's helped in the training of the new Batgirl. She had a baby. (Oh, that's right, she was a teenage mother. There's a character point for you.) Batman started to approve of her as a heroine as well. And now, she's the new Robin.

And you've just got to have a Robin on this team. :D

What she brings to the party: Attitude with a capital "A", and a sense of being the realist and a darker attitude at times on how to handle villains than you might expect from a "Robin."


Yeah, she just tried convincing the REAL Robin that he was the father too. :roll: I'd rather have a part time Nightwing or a new identity Tim than her. Even if it means no Robin in the Titans.

Sorry, but I'm a firm Tim-Cassy shipper. I ain't got no use for Spoiler. Except as target practise of course. :twisted:


Rakka wrote:
5) Kid Flash

Lately, Bart Allen has been getting awesome.

I have every issue of Impulse. And let's be honest. In the beginning, he was a joke. The concept was there... but they never took it anywhere really interesting.

Now, however... he's suddenly on his way to being the greatest speedster ever. He's capable of many of the same feats as his Grandfather (one Barry Allen), he has a photographic memory (He cleaned out the San Francisco public library in under a half hour. And remembers everything he read), and has been trained by some of the best.

And he's still not even ten years old yet.

Yeah, remember, he was aged at superspeed. He's still only, like, 6, tops?

Oh, and there's also his current drive to show people he's taking things seriously. A nice contrast, personality-wise against our Robin who used to keep donning a costume to impress a certain boy wonder.


Well, I only know him as the annoying Impulse kid, but if you say he's changed, I'm willing to give him a shot. Still would've preferred Jesse Quick, if only to force Richard and Babs back together due to some jealousy issues. (With Babs recognizing that she still loves Shortpants, else she wouldn't be getting jealous.)


Rakka wrote:
6) Mary Marvel

This is the cincher, folks. This is why you won't have a Donna Troy coming back. This is also why I refuse to bring in the new 'Wonder Girl'. There's someone so much more INTERESTING out there. Someone sweet, kind, and all-together innocent who honestly believes in the best in people.

Someone who packs enough power to kick Captain Atom's ass up and down the street. :D

Mary Marvel, the sweet, charming 16 year old who packs a good chunk of the power of Shazam has always been underplayed in everything. Which is too bad, cause she can be so interesting. She made regular appearances in the end of Peter David's "Supergirl" run, and she was in the 6-issue "Formerly Known As The Justice League".

What she brings to the party: Brute power, a genuine heart to the team with a want to look over people, a fresh face, pure innocence, and many opportunities to have her mention "Hoppy, The Marvel Bunny."

I love that rabbit.

Hold onto your hats, cause from here on out, it gets controversial.


Hmmm.. I suppose she'd work. Bit young for my taste, course I just want to kill off Dolphin and hook Donna and Garth up, so I'm biased. :twisted:

Still, she definitely solves the flying strength requirement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:05 pm 
Rakka wrote:
I'm going to hold off on replying fully until I get my other six posted.

Cause you guys are just gonna be scratching your heads and going "HUH?" :wink:


Private James Logan!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:09 pm 
Wait a second...I know whom she's got lined up...

It's...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:00 pm 
...Walky?


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:14 pm 
IS_Wolf wrote:
Come on Rakka, that whole Trigon storyline has been done to death. It's even worse than the constant reharping of the Phoenix saga with Jean Grey. Heck, she's even the reason why we got that Wilderbeast society storyline with an insane/possessed Jericho. Nominate someone else, I'd even prefer Starfire over her, and I don't like Kory one damned bit. Heck, I'd even prefer Arsenal over her, and I don't like Speedy either. (Rather surprised they never started schtoinking together, they're perfect for each other.)


Oh, it goes beyond just Trigon.

There's the Brother Blood cult, which has been after Raven for years. And it was just recently revealed that the cult worshipped Trigon.

And everybody knows that the Brother Blood cult makes for interesting stories.

There's her own dark sides that she continually respresses (remember, I hated Team Titans. But I loved watching Evil Raven smack Starfire around like a red-headed stepchild on her wedding day. :D)

Plus, you've got one storytelling truth. As Robin pointed out once, "Raven's betrayed the Titans more times than they acknowlege." He told the new blood that she can't fully be trusted. And that means storytelling gold when there's a higher-up everybody is suspicious of.

IS_Wolf wrote:
Yeah, she just tried convincing the REAL Robin that he was the father too. :roll: I'd rather have a part time Nightwing or a new identity Tim than her. Even if it means no Robin in the Titans.

Sorry, but I'm a firm Tim-Cassy shipper. I ain't got no use for Spoiler. Except as target practise of course. :twisted:


You better go back and reread that story-arc, IS. You're getting sloppy. Stephanie tells Tim she's pregnant. Tim is about to ask if it's his. Stephanie informs him "A few make-out sessions do not a baby make."

She never told him the kid was his. She told him up-front it was someone elses, and then the 'does she keep it' storyline began.

IS_Wolf wrote:
Well, I only know him as the annoying Impulse kid, but if you say he's changed, I'm willing to give him a shot. Still would've preferred Jesse Quick, if only to force Richard and Babs back together due to some jealousy issues. (With Babs recognizing that she still loves Shortpants, else she wouldn't be getting jealous.)


Jesse Quick (sorry, I loved her originally) is the storytelling equivalent of mayonaise on white bread. She's got NOTHING to add besides the fact her father was part of the JSA.

So get her on that team instead.


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:51 pm 
Rakka wrote:

Oh, it goes beyond just Trigon.

There's the Brother Blood cult, which has been after Raven for years. And it was just recently revealed that the cult worshipped Trigon.

And everybody knows that the Brother Blood cult makes for interesting stories.

There's her own dark sides that she continually respresses (remember, I hated Team Titans. But I loved watching Evil Raven smack Starfire around like a red-headed stepchild on her wedding day. :D)

Plus, you've got one storytelling truth. As Robin pointed out once, "Raven's betrayed the Titans more times than they acknowlege." He told the new blood that she can't fully be trusted. And that means storytelling gold when there's a higher-up everybody is suspicious of.


So they had to tie the BB Cult to Trigon as well, huh. :roll: Of all the demons and devils and what not they could pick in the DC-verse, they had to go for Trigon again. That guy has been killed more times than Jean "I return from the dead every odd year" Grey, for crying out loud.

You do have a point about the storytelling potential, or it being fun that she was whacking Starfire around. I'm just sick and tired of the whole Trigon angle, and them tying the BB CUlt to him as well, doesn't make me happy either.

Would it have been that hard for them to tie it to some demon who was a long term enemy/rival of Trigon?? Who wanted the death of his rival's daughter, so he could conquer Earth etc etc.. Yrch.

That's one of the reasons why I'm so tired of the Raven character, it keeps dragging up the Trigon angle. It's even worse than the whole Green Goblin angle over with the Webhead.. Besides, if you wanted a traitor you could've gone for Terra. :wink: :P

Still think my Mojo/Spiral's body Shop/Dropping ratings idea could explain why it wasn't the real Tara Markov that's currently running around, even though her bro thinks she's his sister. (Hey, with Access around, a quick crossover is bound to happen.)

Rakka wrote:

You better go back and reread that story-arc, IS. You're getting sloppy. Stephanie tells Tim she's pregnant. Tim is about to ask if it's his. Stephanie informs him "A few make-out sessions do not a baby make."

She never told him the kid was his. She told him up-front it was someone elses, and then the 'does she keep it' storyline began.


:?:

Really?? Hmm.. Was misinformed then, get most of DC related knowledge from online fanreviews, what with DC nearly not being published anymore overhere. Point in her favour then, still prefer a Cassie-Tim relationship. And still don't like the idea of her as Robin. :P



Rakka wrote:
IS_Wolf wrote:
Well, I only know him as the annoying Impulse kid, but if you say he's changed, I'm willing to give him a shot. Still would've preferred Jesse Quick, if only to force Richard and Babs back together due to some jealousy issues. (With Babs recognizing that she still loves Shortpants, else she wouldn't be getting jealous.)


Jesse Quick (sorry, I loved her originally) is the storytelling equivalent of mayonaise on white bread. She's got NOTHING to add besides the fact her father was part of the JSA.

So get her on that team instead.


You telling me that you couldn't turn her into an interesting character?? :wink:

Besides, your Titans needs a techhead to replace Vic, from what I've seen thus far you are missing one. (More in the other thread.)


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