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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:23 pm 
Ripped from Slashdot: here

Username and password "toasterx" should get you in.

Compared to nearly any other electronic system electronic voting machins recieve virtually no real-world testing and there is no robust tracking mechanism to verify correct transactions.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:52 pm 
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No, apparently nobody cares.

Bush supporters: you lost, get over it.

Kerry supporters: Meh. Whatever.

Well, at least the UKRAINE wonders about highly contested elections that are fraught with opportunities for fraud...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:08 pm 
Ishidan wrote:
No, apparently nobody cares.

Bush supporters: you lost, get over it.

Kerry supporters: Meh. Whatever.

Well, at least the UKRAINE wonders about highly contested elections that are fraught with opportunities for fraud...

:? Well, it is heartening to know that a good chunk of the population of the Ukraine is capable of subtler thought than the airheads who write for the Washington Post.

:x On the other hand, it isn't, really. Although Elizabeth Busmiller, she of the kindergarten-level sincere insights into President Bush's personal feelings, won the Wimblehack competition for worst political reporter over Howard Fineman of Newsweek.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:38 am 
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6597179/site/newsweek/

Ukraine's elections had significantly more fraud all around, along with downright violent attempts at voter suppression. You'd be hard pressed to find a dozen such cases of violence in the US. As far as other fraud in the US, it could easily cut both ways, while the Ukraine's fraud was pretty one-sided.

It's pretty easy to tell that when you have extremely wide-spread and heavy fraud, 3% isn't as significant as when you have fairly mild localized fraud.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:18 pm 
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Say, does somebody have a compilation anywhere of all the reported voting machine screw ups?

This is what I want to know: in all KNOWN cases (obviously. If they aren't known, how can they be tabulated? Of course, it's like "what was the highest mountain before Mt. Everest was discovered"--just because you don't know about them does not mean they were not there), which way did the error favor?

So far I haven't heard a single report of an intercepted machine error that would have favored Kerry if it had been allowed to go through. Only Bush's vote tallies seemed to magically inflate to more than the number of people who came in to vote, only Kerry's numbers magically decreased between printouts (and were thereby found by virtue of being so blazingly OBVIOUS). It also seems that it was NOT localized: reports of such screwups have been coming in from multiple high-stakes states.

Am I only hearing the ones that favored Bush, or what?

edit: yes I did :stfw:. I came up with the points that led to the question.

Ohio: Magical gain for Bush. Almost every news story jumps on this one. Pages after pages of this one. At first glance you'd think this was the ONLY one, because it's the only one that comes back from a Google. Also, statement from Diebold corporate head in support of Bush.

I don't have the time to hunt down the rest right now (I didn't expect a Googlesearch would find nothing but Ohio, Ohio, Ohio! I feel like a tour bus driver taking on a load of Japanese businessmen over here.)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:52 pm 
Points to Consider

-- The Democrats were the underdogs in this election, therefore they were the ones doing most of the looking for bogus results.

-- The key swing states had Republicans in charge of their voting systems. Attention was obviously going to be focused on them, particularly since the Florida machine was caught tinkering with voting registration lists and fighting dirty to prevent recounts in 2000.

-- Democratic progressives "cleaned up" their party's politics back in the 60s and 70s, breaking up the old machines and driving many of the old party bosses out of power. They are often criticized for this purification campaign by pundits and historians, as it supposedly cost them the next few presidential elections and eventually their control of the congress. The flip side of that is that they now have fewer dirty politicians than the Republicans, and less inclination and skill to cheat on election procedures.


Historical Background

The Republicans, as recently as the Eisenhower era, were probably the cleaner of the two parties in this regard. When Richard Nixon was originally considered as Eisenhower's running mate, there was actually a public debate over whether he had "outgrown" his roots as a sleazy McCarthyite.

Since the seventies, the Republicans have been gradually taken over by people trained and groomed for politics in the Nixon tradition. Nixon had a cadre of Young Republicans from Ivy League schools who dealt in what was then called "rat-fucking." This is the petty-dirty-tricks style of politics you now hear of in student elections and on the fringes of campaigning: stealing enemy pamphlets, planting bogus stories, spreading dirty rumors, sending out your people disguised as radicals from the other side to cause trouble and discredit them.

The "Dirty Tricks" people who worked directly for Nixon (Donald Segretti was the best known) were all driven out of politics during the Watergate investigation. However, their tradition lived on, as part of the "moral decay" often blamed on the 60s cultural upheavals, and frat house political sociopaths of this sort now dominate the party.

Most notorious historical example of "Dirty Tricks:" Segretti and his boys spread a rumor during the early primaries of the 1972 campaign claiming that Senator Edmund Muskie's wife had been telling "Canuck" jokes at parties. In Maine, Muskie's home state, "Canuck" is a racist epithet for Americans of French-Canadian dissent. Muskie denounced the rumors in public, then cried while discussing how much this had hurt his wife. His tears finished him as a candidate in 1972 as quickly as Howard Dean's scream did in 2003. He was a moderate who was considered to have the best chance of beating Nixon that year. In some ways, the guy who won the nomination, the liberal and un-charismatic George McGovern, had been hand-picked for the job by Nixon's people. They did their best to discredit and defeat all the other Democrats running; McGovern turned out to be the easy mark they thought he would be.

Most notorious modern example: the Swift Boat Veterans campaign. One of the men involved had actually been recruited as a Dirty Tricks operative for Nixon in 1972, to spread rumors about John Kerry while he was involved in the anti-war movement. The SBV were recruited among men of similar feeling, right-winger haters convinced that Kerry was a Communist agitator back in the seventies and that he and the other protesters were traitors who sabotaged the war effort on behalf of the Soviets. Their case against Kerry was a combination of unprovable and contradictary gossip and easily debunked lies, but it did the job of destroying Kerry's credibility with millions of voters.

Another anecdote tying the two eras together: because reporters were beginning to do stories about Republican Dirty Tricks after the 1972 campaign got into full swing, the party leadership moved to suppress Republican activists who were too public about their shennanigans. The national chairman, George H. Bush, personally talked to two college boys who were bragging publically about the stunts they were pulling. One was Roger Ailes, who later ran Ronald Reagan's campaigns and became famous for his smear tactics. Ailes is currently chairman of Fox news. The other was Karl Rove, who Bush hired fresh out of college as a staffer. He has been working with the Bush family ever since.


Last edited by Berken on Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:21 pm 
Gee, everyone commenting on the US stuff, but noone even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the Ukraine.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:12 pm 
Kazriko wrote:
Gee, everyone commenting on the US stuff, but noone even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the Ukraine.

Exciting to watch, really. It looks like 1989 all over again. The apparatchiks would like to settle in for a long stay, but they haven't got the hardness or courage to really move in the tanks and suppress the popular uprising.

I don't know what kind of government the opposition will run, but linking the country to the wealth of the EU instead of the institutional rot in Russia has to be an improvement.

The Euro reached new highs this week against the dollar. Ironically, back when they first issued it, a decade or so ago, much informed opinion was that it would fail to be more than a minor item of exchange. The thought was that the only thing that could make it quickly successful would be if one or two of the other major economic powers would f*** up their own currency so badly that the Euro would look like a good alternative.

Enter George W. and his future of spiraling infinite deficits.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:20 pm 
Heh, The nice thing about the USD being low is that it could adjust the trade deficit back towards our favor a bit. Some items other countries export have set USD prices that they can't increase easily (Such as the Playstation 2, Gamecube, and any other products where they have equally priced US competitors.) While US companies can decrease the cost of their exports in other countries and still make the same USD in profit. On the other hand, products designed in the US, or by US companies manufactured overseas will feel the pinch, and some products that the companies adjust the prices up on will cause a bit of price inflation if there are no US competitors. Companies that do excessive Offshoring may have a problem too and may see their costs skyrocket.

It certainly isn't a way to run the country long-term though, but it could help us out in the short run.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:54 am 
And another example of how the rat-f***ers have inherited the earth in the 21st Century:

Quote:
Former Bush campaign official indicted

Dec. 2, 2004 | Concord, N.H. -- President Bush's former New England campaign chairman was indicted Wednesday on charges he took part in the jamming of the Democrats' get-out-the-vote phone lines on Election Day 2002.

James Tobin, 44, stepped down Oct. 15 - two weeks before Election Day - after the Democrats accused him of involvement.

"I am saddened to learn that this action has been taken against me," he said in a statement. "I have great respect for the justice system and plan to fight back to clear my name."

In 2002, six phone lines run by the Democrats and the Manchester firefighters union were tied up for 1 1/2 hours by 800 computer-generated hang-up calls. Federal prosecutors said Tobin and other Republicans had hired a company to make the calls to disrupt the organizations' get-out-the-vote efforts.

Tobin was charged with conspiracy to commit telephone harassment and aiding and abetting. He could get up to five years in prison.

At the time of the jamming, Tobin was Northeast political director for the Republican Senatorial Committee, which works to elect Republicans to the Senate.

Among the races affected by the jamming was the Senate contest between Democratic Gov. Jeanne Shaheen and Republican Rep. John E. Sununu. Sununu won by about 20,000 votes.

The Democrats praised the indictment but questioned its timing.

"I think it's unfortunate the Justice Department delayed, for whatever reasons that it did, until after the election," state Democratic chairwoman Kathy Sullivan said. "I hope this was not delayed for political reasons."

Over the summer, Chuck McGee, former executive director of the New Hampshire Republican Party, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and admitted paying $15,600 to a Virginia telemarketing company that hired another business to make the calls. A GOP consultant with the telemarketing company also pleaded guilty. The two men are awaiting sentencing.


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