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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:31 pm 
DarthBaboon wrote:
Animal wrote:
sun tzu wrote:
Quote:
try not to let all the myriad stupid people in the world wind ya up to much!

A valuable advice if I've ever heard one.


Agreed, and one I do try to live by - I do, I really really do.


Sometimes it just gets hard. I worked as a telemarketer for a few months (not something I am that proud of) and I can tell you from experience, the populous is a bunch of retards.

We need to develop a mantra to sooth us in times of stupidity.


12-year old Scotch works pretty good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:54 pm 
[quote="U2QueenBee"]No one cares what I think, but I'm saying anyway, because free speech is Good.

I don't claim to know diddly squat about biology, but I think it's important to remember that evolution is only a theory (albeit the best one we have so far), and that evolution and science do not rule out the possibility of the existence of God or any supreme being. The feeling I'm getting from reading this thread is that some of the opposition to and support of creationism is stemming from an inherent fear of faith, or lack of it. Please note I am NOT attacking anyone - it's just an observation. I am an evolutionist, and, though raised Catholic, I'm not even sure if I believe in God anymore. But that said, would it actually be so horribly bad if there were a God who created us, if it actually were true? (Aside from me and a lot of other people going to hell ;) )
[/quote]

I agree. Personally, i'm an agnostic - i simply don't believe, and i don't care. If there were a God out there, i have no problems with that, but believe he/she/it will be nothing like the organised religions out there say he/she/it is.

It is indeed impossible to disprove the existance of God, given the conditions "he/she/it created the universe".

The problem is, there are people trying to *disprove* evolution on the basis of one single book. That's it. No evidence other than "This non-corporeal being told these guys about two thousand years ago what was what, who then talked about it a bit, then write bits and pieces over x years, said mishmah of writings then put into a book, then translated from a language/smbolism used way, way ago in the past, where the actual symbols, sayings, syllogisms (go alliteration! :) ) and cultural constructs have to be inferred from other bits of writings, smatterings of pottery and geology that's changed in past two thousand years (and more, when you are referring to the bits that came before christ)."

Against this, you have *other* religions, with conflicting views on who is "all powerful", who also claim to be the One True Religion.

Evolution, on the other hand, is directly observable, through field study, and experiments on short lived creatures like flies.

[quote="U2QueenBee"]
IMO, evolution should be at least mentioned in schools as a theory, a possibility. But people who believe otherwise should not be dismissed automatically, or have their beliefs disrespected. The Bible can be a story and contain truths at the same time. How big (and round, for that matter) did people think the world was at the time of Noah's flood? What about the scientists who have found evidence of things like King David and a supernova which would correspond to the Nativity Star, people who aren't believers and find some facts to suggest these possibilities nonetheless? Plus, who knows if our versions are translated right? All in all, there's still a hell of a lot we don't know about the world and the universe and history and how it all works, so I don't like to rule anything out just yet. :)[/quote]

I think it should be mentioned that there are alternate "beginnings of the world", and that creationism should be mentioned. I also feel that other possibilities should be mentioned, such as buddhist viewpoints, but there is no way that the christians will allow that, ever.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:13 pm 
westyx wrote:
I think it should be mentioned that there are alternate "beginnings of the world", and that creationism should be mentioned. I also feel that other possibilities should be mentioned, such as buddhist viewpoints, but there is no way that the christians will allow that, ever.


But not in science classes. Never in science classes. None of them. That's the whole point.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:09 am 
0X


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:22 am 
Madcat wrote:
0X


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:59 am 
Animal wrote:
Madcat wrote:
0X


Image


What Animal said.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:04 am 
Animal wrote:
westyx wrote:
I think it should be mentioned that there are alternate "beginnings of the world", and that creationism should be mentioned. I also feel that other possibilities should be mentioned, such as buddhist viewpoints, but there is no way that the christians will allow that, ever.


But not in science classes. Never in science classes. None of them. That's the whole point.


Although if our teachers are supposed to teach Evolutionary Theory (which I fully support, as it is, if not the backbone, then at least the femur of biology) they need to be equipped to defend it if a student tries to fight them on it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:29 am 
DarthBaboon wrote:
Animal wrote:
westyx wrote:
I think it should be mentioned that there are alternate "beginnings of the world", and that creationism should be mentioned. I also feel that other possibilities should be mentioned, such as buddhist viewpoints, but there is no way that the christians will allow that, ever.


But not in science classes. Never in science classes. None of them. That's the whole point.


Although if our teachers are supposed to teach Evolutionary Theory (which I fully support, as it is, if not the backbone, then at least the femur of biology) they need to be equipped to defend it if a student tries to fight them on it.


Sure. But that's not the same as giving "equal time" or even a one-class-period nod to pseudo-scientific nitwittery.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:39 am 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707
As for equal time for creationism in school, I'm all for it. But since creation only took six days, and evolution took billions of years, the equivalent time spent teaching creationism should only be one pico-second for every four years spent teaching evolutionary science. (A "pico-second" is approximately the time it takes a beam of light to travel the width of a human hair.)

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:41 am 
Animal wrote:
DarthBaboon wrote:
Animal wrote:
westyx wrote:
I think it should be mentioned that there are alternate "beginnings of the world", and that creationism should be mentioned. I also feel that other possibilities should be mentioned, such as buddhist viewpoints, but there is no way that the christians will allow that, ever.


But not in science classes. Never in science classes. None of them. That's the whole point.


Although if our teachers are supposed to teach Evolutionary Theory (which I fully support, as it is, if not the backbone, then at least the femur of biology) they need to be equipped to defend it if a student tries to fight them on it.


Sure. But that's not the same as giving "equal time" or even a one-class-period nod to pseudo-scientific nitwittery.


I wasn't talking about that. You just don't send a soldier to attack a pill box armed with only a box of toothpicks. If you want to break through to some of these kids, you need to be well armed.

And in the name of good science, it should be mentioned that Cell Theory and Evolutionary Theory are just that: theories. They are very strong and both form the skeleton of biology, but they are not scientific Laws. Students need to understand that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:09 am 
DarthBaboon wrote:
And in the name of good science, it should be mentioned that Cell Theory and Evolutionary Theory are just that: theories. They are very strong and both form the skeleton of biology, but they are not scientific Laws. Students need to understand that.


And they should also understand precisely why 'creationism' isn't science at all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:21 am 
DarthBaboon wrote:
(which I fully support, as it is, if not the backbone, then at least the femur of biology)


This has nothing to do with anything but I find that hilarious...evolution is the femur of biology. :lol: Brilliant! I'm going to have to remember that one! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:52 pm 
Animal wrote:
Madcat wrote:
0X


Image


I think Madcat is expressing support for the theory that life on earth was created by aliens.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:01 pm 
gwalla wrote:
Animal wrote:
Madcat wrote:
0X


Image


I think Madcat is expressing support for the theory that life on earth was created by aliens.


I think my reaction would remain the same:

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:21 pm 
lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:31 am 
U2QueenBee wrote:
DarthBaboon wrote:
(which I fully support, as it is, if not the backbone, then at least the femur of biology)


This has nothing to do with anything but I find that hilarious...evolution is the femur of biology. :lol: Brilliant! I'm going to have to remember that one! :D


Thank you. You have permission to quote me on that one (or blatantly rip it off and use it as your own, either is fine :P )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:40 am 
Animal wrote:
DarthBaboon wrote:
And in the name of good science, it should be mentioned that Cell Theory and Evolutionary Theory are just that: theories. They are very strong and both form the skeleton of biology, but they are not scientific Laws. Students need to understand that.


And they should also understand precisely why 'creationism' isn't science at all.


Yes. Although I don't think the teachers should be required to snuff out the religious believes of their students, they should understand that science does not support creationism as a theory.

I personally think you can be a Christian and still believe Evolution is a valid, well supported, workable theory, but others on this board are proof enough that no all the rest of the religious community agrees with me. Education should be promoted in the church about Evolution. Too many people believe evolution is wrong and evil just because they were told to think that. Maybe it's the scientist in me, but I always want to see the facts before I make a decision.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:06 pm 
DarthBaboon wrote:
Yes. Although I don't think the teachers should be required to snuff out the religious believes of their students, they should understand that science does not support creationism as a theory.

Yet, you know that any teacher who gives the facts about evolution and creationism is going to be accused, by creationists, of just that. *wry grin* Belief has a hard row to hoe when it goes up against provable facts.
Quote:
I personally think you can be a Christian and still believe Evolution is a valid, well supported, workable theory, but others on this board are proof enough that no all the rest of the religious community agrees with me. Education should be promoted in the church about Evolution. Too many people believe evolution is wrong and evil just because they were told to think that. Maybe it's the scientist in me, but I always want to see the facts before I make a decision.

The problem is with unquestioned authority, IMO. Your second-to-last sentence says it quite clearly. "...because they were told to think that."

Sad, when a tape recorder can replace using what God gave you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:09 am 
True. People are lemmings.


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