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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:45 pm 
The following link goes to a good friend's website. It's about a little kitten that Jessica found on Election Day and took home to her parents. Somehow, the kitten survived.

http://www.kschlenker.com/id16.html

THe reason why I am posting this here is due to the fact that Jessica told me that the Vet told them that the kitty appeared to have been a victim of a "Halloween" sacrifice. Somehow, he was able to get away.

If he was, in fact, going to be a sacrifice, then who the heck would do something like this? What kind of religion teaches and preaches about sacrificing animals? What religion, nowadays, would condone this kind of behaviour?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:09 pm 
Isn't Paganism or forms there of supposed to include animal sacrifice?
I mean most polytheistic ones if I recall correctly usually had that
It could be some drunken "good idea"..... I mean I got drunk and was praising this fire we had, it went out in the end :(
But enough of that, like I said it could be drunks or sadists perhaps


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:45 pm 
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kreely wrote:
If he was, in fact, going to be a sacrifice, then who the heck would do something like this?


I suspect Goths.

Really, though, sociopathic people harm animals all year round... some whack jobs probably figure burning kittens is on par with smashing pumpkins. Why do you assume it was a religious thing? Some cults and pagan religions advocate animal sacrifice, but it could just as easily be some deliquent kids who wanted to be all dark and Satanic, with little specific religious overtones besides those they got from... vampire novels, or whatever. Or maybe just some lone nut who gets off on cutting kittens.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:30 pm 
jeremiahsmith wrote:
Why do you assume it was a religious thing? Some cults and pagan religions advocate animal sacrifice, but it could just as easily be some deliquent kids who wanted to be all dark and Satanic, with little specific religious overtones besides those they got from... vampire novels, or whatever. Or maybe just some lone nut who gets off on cutting kittens.


The wounds were made approximately six hours apart, in the vet's opinion, made on Halloween night, a time designation made based on the amount of infection the worst (and oldest) wound had, the belly wound, and the amount of necrosis the other major wounds displayed. (Having been a farm girl for more than a decade, and all the animals I've seen injured, that was my layman's guess, as well.) He was also starved most of the way to death, so much so, that I think he's already gained an ounce, maybe two, in less than 48 hours. Given how fast he ran before we cornered him into the truck engine, and how fast he is when I'm playing with him, he wouldn't've been that skinny if he'd just been a dumpee, he could've caught crickets and palmetto bugs without problem (it is TX after all, and floods always make the bugs more out-and-about). Vet (the one who we talked to in the office, face to face) estimated he'd been without decent amounts of food for several days before we found him -- someone deliberately withheld food from him before the injuries occured. That, alone, makes it a planned behavior; it wasn't a spur of moment thing.

We aren't positive that whoever was doing it knew exactly what they were doing, but both vets appear to believe it was being done for a Purpose, and not just mindless jollies.

I guess, for my part, it's slightly -- very slightly -- easier to believe the little angel who has stolen my bed (cats, after all, sleep in the MIDDLE of the bed, no matter how small they are, and how big their human is) was hurt because someone was being "religious", than because they did it out of pure enjoyment. Although both nauseate me, because to accept a religion, you have to accept the practices _of_ that religion ...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:56 pm 
Hey miah, remember bible school. Sacrifices were quite common in CHristianity. Who's to say that those same practices aren't being followed today? So yeah, a kitten isn't a calf...the intent is what matters. Hmm, there was also something about sacrificing children way back when, too.

Yes, cruelty does happen...and most of the time those animals die before help can reach them. This just happens to be one of the times where someone was kind enough to help the critter.

Personally, if you want to abuse something, abuse something bigger, more dangerous, and more deadly than you. That way the abuser can be on the receiving end.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:29 pm 
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kreely wrote:
Hey miah, remember bible school. Sacrifices were quite common in Christianity. Who's to say that those same practices aren't being followed today? So yeah, a kitten isn't a calf...the intent is what matters. Hmm, there was also something about sacrificing children way back when, too.


Animal sacrifice hasn't been a main tenet of Christianity for quite some time, since they believe that Jesus was the be-all-end-all of sacrifices, and tends to be abhorred by most of them anyway. And Judaism had very specific laws about what could and couldn't be sacrificed, and I don't think cats made the list. I'm inclined to say that if this was done for some religious purpose, it was probably not Judeochristian in nature.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:26 pm 
Do you have empirical evidence that supports your belief that it was not Judeochristian in nature? *note: I'm not saying it was...*


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:29 pm 
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Aside from the fact that judeochristian beliefs have not actually contained animal sacrifice in hundreds of years? probably not.

Of course, if you define satanism as an offshoot of judeochristianity (some do) then you'll get a different answer.

Vorn


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:32 pm 
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kreely wrote:
Do you have empirical evidence that supports your belief that it was not Judeochristian in nature? *note: I'm not saying it was...*


Um, I just pointed out that Judeochristian beliefs are strongly against the sacrificing of kittens, so it is justified to conclude that it probably wasn't.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:37 pm 
Vorn the Unspeakable wrote:
Aside from the fact that judeochristian beliefs have not actually contained animal sacrifice in hundreds of years? probably not.

Of course, if you define satanism as an offshoot of judeochristianity (some do) then you'll get a different answer.

Vorn



*LOLS* Excellent one, Vorn. Didn't think anyone would really catch that. But, then again, most Satanists that I know do not believe in animal sacrifices. However, you can still find them in Hinduism *re: Kail*, Islam, amongst African Christians *yes, you can google for it.*

Let's not forget Santeria, Voudon, and similar religions.

Oh, and by the way, when/if the Temple is ever rebuilt in Jerusalem...do you think that they'll not do animal sacrifices? Even though the rebuilding of the Temple would involve a return to Temple Worship, which did involve AS?

Gah, I'm at work...I'm bored...and I've been here for over 14 hours.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:51 pm 
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kreely wrote:
But, then again, most Satanists that I know do not believe in animal sacrifices.


And as I understand it, modern Satanism is not really related to the Christian conception of Satan at all, but instead based on early, pre-Christian pagan concepts of power, virility, and sexuality and such.

Quote:
Oh, and by the way, when/if the Temple is ever rebuilt in Jerusalem...do you think that they'll not do animal sacrifices? Even though the rebuilding of the Temple would involve a return to Temple Worship, which did involve AS?


Worship at the Temple is a tenet of Judaism, not Christianity, though. I never said that animal sacrifice wasn't a tenet of Judaism; I said they wouldn't do kittens.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:12 pm 
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jeremiahsmith wrote:
kreely wrote:
But, then again, most Satanists that I know do not believe in animal sacrifices.


And as I understand it, modern Satanism is not really related to the Christian conception of Satan at all, but instead based on early, pre-Christian pagan concepts of power, virility, and sexuality and such.

Yep - that, a pinch of social darwinism and a big chunk of Crowley-esque "magick" (random occurrence of physical phenomena I hate that spelling!) is what makes up LaVey's Satanism AFAIK. 'course, there is still the good ol' Devil worship (which nowadays is performed by goth kids trying to be cool)...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:06 am 
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Attilla wrote:
Isn't Paganism or forms there of supposed to include animal sacrifice?


Just so you know, "pagan" actually refers to any religion outside the judeochristian sphere.

Buddhists could be considered pagan. And I can tell you for sure that any Buddhist would be appalled. I know I am.

I doubt it was Wiccans either. Most Wiccans I've met have been of the "fluffy bunny" persuasion.

Personally, gut feeling, I'd have to side with Jer here. Goths. There are some who are total whackjobs, even though the majority of them are fairly decent. (Gee, sounds like Muslims, or Christians, or even furries... There's always a few whackjobs in any group)

Whoever did this needs a taste of the end of my sjambok. (And no, that's not violating the Principle of Non-Aggression that I adhere to, because they initiated force against the kitten first.)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:28 am 
I wondered if anyone would object to me using the term "Pagan" but well i'm talking misc. things.... i.e. non-major religions which may or may not contain, because I didn't feel like suddenly listing all ones which may or may not use animal sacrifices nowadays

and nobody has touched on the fact it could be very careful and determined sadists.... as they kept the kitten alive...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:23 pm 
Technically, by the original definition, a pagan is someone who lives in a rural area.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:57 pm 
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well then I guess I'm a pagan pagan.

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Fandemonium 2010 -- No Boundaries.
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Friday - Sunday, August 6th - 8th, 2010
Nampa Civic Center - Nampa, Idaho (Only 20 minutes from the airport!)
(Idaho: It ain't just potatoes anymore.)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:29 am 
I'd have to agree with the 'wannabe' theory. I think any body that did that 'religiously' would be skilled enough that the kitten wouldn't get away. Maybe we can hope that the kitten is free because the &*$%'s got sickened by what they were doing and stopped, and therefore won't do it again.

How is the kitten doing? From what you've said it sounds to me like it will recover, I sure hope so.

On the Jewish/Christian thing, while I haven't read the rules for the various sacrifices recently, I'm pretty sure they all started with "cut the throat" or some other means of a quick death. So while at least some of the meat was burned, it was not any more cruel to the animals than being cooked for dinner. Which may still annoy those that are against killing animals for food, but it not the same (in my mind) as deliberatly torturing the animal.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:10 pm 
I'd have to agree that I've never heard of animal torture being involved in a religious rituals, it's essentially always a throat cutting following by an offering/burnt offering of blood or some other part of the animal. The closest thing I can think of is evisceration of a live animal, since entrails were sometimes used in foretelling the future, but that doesn't sound like what happened to the kitten.

Organized religion sticks to torturing humans, not animals. I think it's some random wannabes, too.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:36 am 
Here are the kitten's pictures: HIK Wayne

Information


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