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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:00 pm 
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Vorpal Bunny Slipper
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6650997/sit ... /?GT1=5936

Quote:
Seventy-nine percent of Americans believe that, as the Bible says, Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, without a human father, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll on beliefs about Jesus.

Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas--the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East--is historically accurate. Twenty-four percent of Americans believe the story of Christmas is a theological invention written to affirm faith in Jesus Christ, the poll shows. In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible.

In the NEWSWEEK poll, 93 percent of Americans say they believe Jesus Christ actually lived and 82 percent believe Jesus Christ was God or the Son of God. Fifty-two percent of all those polled believe, as the Bible proclaims, that Jesus will return to earth someday; 21 percent do not believe it. Fifteen percent believe Jesus will return in their lifetime; 47 percent do not, the poll shows.

When asked if there would be more or less kindness in the world today if there had never been a Jesus, 61 percent of all those polled say there would be less kindness. Forty-seven percent say there would be more war if there had never been a Jesus (16 percent say less, 26 percent say the same); 63 percent say there would be less charity; 58 percent say there would be less tolerance; 59 percent say there would be less personal happiness and 38 percent say there would be less religious divisions (21 percent say more and 26 percent say the same).

Just 11 percent of those surveyed say American society as a whole very closely reflects true Christian values and the spirit of Jesus; 53 percent say it somewhat reflects those values. But 86 percent say they believe organized religion has a "a lot" or "some" influence over life in the United States today. Nine percent say it has "only a little" influence.

Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty- three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea.


Discuss.

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Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
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Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:48 pm 
What was the faith of the people they were polling? The results sound a little off. Especially where 43% want to teach creation science over evolution.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:52 pm 
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Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

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Mrs. Keradon wrote:
What was the faith of the people they were polling? The results sound a little off. Especially where 43% want to teach creation science over evolution.


I very much hope they're off. Otherwise... *shudder*

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:38 pm 
jeremiahsmith wrote:
Mrs. Keradon wrote:
What was the faith of the people they were polling? The results sound a little off. Especially where 43% want to teach creation science over evolution.


I very much hope they're off. Otherwise... *shudder*


Yeah. It's possible that science education in this country really is that lousy.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:51 pm 
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These are the scariest parts.

Quote:
In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible.

Forty- three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea.


Fifty one percent...no, I won't go there right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:49 am 
jeremiahsmith wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6650997/site/newsweek/?GT1=5936

Quote:
Seventy-nine percent of Americans believe that, as the Bible says, Jesus Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, without a human father, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll on beliefs about Jesus.

Sixty-seven percent say they believe that the entire story of Christmas--the Virgin Birth, the angelic proclamation to the shepherds, the Star of Bethlehem and the Wise Men from the East--is historically accurate. Twenty-four percent of Americans believe the story of Christmas is a theological invention written to affirm faith in Jesus Christ, the poll shows. In general, say 55 percent of those polled, every word of the Bible is literally accurate. Thirty-eight percent do not believe that about the Bible.

In the NEWSWEEK poll, 93 percent of Americans say they believe Jesus Christ actually lived and 82 percent believe Jesus Christ was God or the Son of God. Fifty-two percent of all those polled believe, as the Bible proclaims, that Jesus will return to earth someday; 21 percent do not believe it. Fifteen percent believe Jesus will return in their lifetime; 47 percent do not, the poll shows.

When asked if there would be more or less kindness in the world today if there had never been a Jesus, 61 percent of all those polled say there would be less kindness. Forty-seven percent say there would be more war if there had never been a Jesus (16 percent say less, 26 percent say the same); 63 percent say there would be less charity; 58 percent say there would be less tolerance; 59 percent say there would be less personal happiness and 38 percent say there would be less religious divisions (21 percent say more and 26 percent say the same).

Just 11 percent of those surveyed say American society as a whole very closely reflects true Christian values and the spirit of Jesus; 53 percent say it somewhat reflects those values. But 86 percent say they believe organized religion has a "a lot" or "some" influence over life in the United States today. Nine percent say it has "only a little" influence.

Sixty-two percent say they favor teaching creation science in addition to evolution in public schools; 26 percent oppose such teaching, the poll shows. Forty- three percent favor teaching creation science instead of evolution in public schools; 40 percent oppose the idea.


Discuss.


USA the land of the...euhm...over religious?

This is freaking hilarious. I mean there has to be a fault right? And how much people did they actually interview?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:28 am 
Other than the teaching creation I'm not very surprised. The US is very religious, and very predominatly Christian (of one type or another).

There is much debate over whether that is a good thing or not, but it really shouldn't be surprising to anybody.

Personally I think evolution should be taught in science classes, it is science after all. But the teachers should keep in mind that many, if not most, of their students already believe in a different theory/hypothesis/story. Just as a teacher trying to preach Christianity in class is out of line, a teacher that deliberately attacks the religious beliefs of students in the class is out of line. Evolution can be taught without attacking a belief in a creator.

I guess that last paragraph belonged on the evolution vs creation thread. Oh well.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:42 am 
The problem, when it comes down to it, is this:

the founding fathers decided America would be a place of freedom both of religion as well as from religion. Ergo church and state are seperated.

If you want to teach creation myth, then fine - but understand it isn't science and can't claim to be, neither can this broadside sneak-attack 'intelligent design'. In addition to that you have to give space to all of the various religions and creation myths, unless you want to declare America as only one faith.

If you want to turn the USA into a religious theocracy, start thinking about what happened the last time religion had that much power: salem witch-trials, the inquisition - and just incase you were wondering, a later example is afghanistan before y'all invaded :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:52 am 
greyseal wrote:
the founding fathers decided America would be a place of freedom both of religion as well as from religion. Ergo church and state are seperated.


So the rest of teh world has not done this? Or certain parts of the world haven't done it?

I think that state and religion are separted in my tiny country. Yet I dont hear people crying on the street that the creation myth should be thought in the biology class. Out of that I conclude I made an error somewhere, but I can't find it. Any help?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:03 pm 
greyseal wrote:
If you want to turn the USA into a religious theocracy,

It already is, for the large part of our political policy.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:13 am 
you hit on the problem exactly - church and state are seperated, yet fundies are demanding that their religious doctrine be taught in a science (ie non-religious) classroom.

That means they're demanding that their religion be state-sanctioned.

Nowhere else that seperates church and state (and in most places where they don't) is a creation myth taught as science. It might be taught, yes, but not as science.

It's not fair and objectioned, it's religious bigotry. If they want to even appear as being fair then they'd have to start teaching all the other creation myths too, at least without burning proof that christianity actually has the answer.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:14 pm 
greyseal wrote:
you hit on the problem exactly - church and state are seperated, yet fundies are demanding that their religious doctrine be taught in a science (ie non-religious) classroom.

That means they're demanding that their religion be state-sanctioned.

Nowhere else that seperates church and state (and in most places where they don't) is a creation myth taught as science. It might be taught, yes, but not as science.

It's not fair and objectioned, it's religious bigotry. If they want to even appear as being fair then they'd have to start teaching all the other creation myths too, at least without burning proof that christianity actually has the answer.


Well, keep in mind that plenty of creationnists argue that the evidence points to creation, and all the theories about an old Earth or evolution are the self-delusions of atheists who don't want to believe in creation...So, in their opinion, it is science.
And then there are the ones who say Satan created the fossils. That's another story. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:17 pm 
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sun tzu wrote:
Well, keep in mind that plenty of creationnists argue that the evidence points to creation, and all the theories about an old Earth or evolution are the self-delusions of atheists who don't want to believe in creation...


Naturally enough, the "atheist scientists" say the exact same thing back.
What evidence points to creation? (don't answer. Rhetorical question.)
What leads you to ignore our evidence (again, rhetorical)?

Of course, there is also the point that even if it is conceded that there IS a supreme creating deity, it does NOT logically follow that this deity is necessarily the same one that you, the creationists, profess to know all about.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:29 pm 
Ishidan wrote:
sun tzu wrote:
Well, keep in mind that plenty of creationnists argue that the evidence points to creation, and all the theories about an old Earth or evolution are the self-delusions of atheists who don't want to believe in creation...


Naturally enough, the "atheist scientists" say the exact same thing back.
What evidence points to creation? (don't answer. Rhetorical question.)
What leads you to ignore our evidence (again, rhetorical)?

Of course, there is also the point that even if it is conceded that there IS a supreme creating deity, it does NOT logically follow that this deity is necessarily the same one that you, the creationists, profess to know all about.


Um, when you say "you", who're you refferring to? Because I'm not a creationnist myself.


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