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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:11 pm 
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112083/

If god wants the credit for the good things shouldn't god take the blame for the bad?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:57 pm 
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Pronto wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112083/

If god wants the credit for the good things shouldn't god take the blame for the bad?


Now, now. You know we have a whipping boy for such things.

That's what Satan's for. To blame bad things on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:20 pm 
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Naw... You'll notice that the vast majority of affected people were Hindu, Moslem, or Buddhist...

It's just God smiting the infidels! He's gone and changed His mind again, and gone back to the Old Testament ways!

Put away your shrimp platters and pickled pig knuckles, folks, Leviticus is back in full force!

Any Christians who were killed, well they're just martyrs, now, aren't they?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:54 pm 
Ishidan wrote:
Pronto wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112083/

If god wants the credit for the good things shouldn't god take the blame for the bad?


Now, now. You know we have a whipping boy for such things.

That's what Satan's for. To blame bad things on.


So... now yer saying god isn't omnipotent? Pick one. If that isn't too tough.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:51 am 
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Pronto wrote:
So... now yer saying god isn't omnipotent? Pick one. If that isn't too tough.


That's what I tell them.

That was sarcasm, based off of seeing that exact sort of thinking go on in the minds of "people of faith".

It's amazing, yes, that God can be all knowing and all kind when good things happen, but when bad things happen...oh that was Satan. Or that just happened without explanation, (as your article notes), Thank God (TM) it wasn't any worse.

F'r example, some soldier gets his Humvee blown out from under him, taking his legs with it, but he gets Medivac'ed and survives.

I get to be treated to "Thank God he didn't die!"

Mmm. Yes, I'm sure this young man who is now looking at spending the rest of his life in a wheelchair is really in a mood to praise God's mercy. Yes, he's in a mood to just get down on his knees and pray, everybody on your...oh, oops.

But hey, remember, you're talking about people who do not need to "pick one". They can reconcile 1 = 3 you know, 1 = 2 is easy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:58 pm 
I think people who write articles like that are not too much different than the Westboro folk.


Last edited by Gerald on Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:41 pm 
Gerald wrote:
I think people who articles like that are not too much differen than the Westboro folk.


Westboro. What else would anyone expect from those assholes?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:31 pm 
Ishidan wrote:
Pronto wrote:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112083/

If god wants the credit for the good things shouldn't god take the blame for the bad?


Now, now. You know we have a whipping boy for such things.

That's what Satan's for. To blame bad things on.


Then how come when someone dies it's always "part of God's plan?"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:35 pm 
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This tsunami was part of God's plan too.

Part of his plan to Punish The Infidels!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:20 am 
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Gerald wrote:
I think people who write articles like that are not too much different than the Westboro folk.


Just out of curiosity, how is blaming a tsunami on innocent people who have very little influence on plate tectonics* the same as blaming a tsunami on the deity who would, theoretically, be actually in charge of such things?

* I'm assuming that some gay supervillain hasn't built some fabulous doomsday device under San Francisco.

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Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:33 am 
Perhaps His wife was playing with the controls? (assuming he has one off course)

I once saw an add for tabasco in which god was putting some on a pizzaslice. However some drops missed and were hurled away, into white puffy clouds. The struck down on earth as giant comets. When gosd noticed, he just shrugged.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:07 pm 
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The General wrote:
Then how come when someone dies it's always "part of God's plan?"


Ah, correction. When somebody that the people around him or her consider to be a good person dies, it's "part of God's plan".

When it's somebody that the people around him/her consider to be a bad, nasty, evil person, it's "THANK GOD!"
Never, of course, any mention as to how the person got so evil in the first place.

Even then, with modern medicine, we perform a spectacular attempt to delay death in any case. It's only when we fail at that, do we resort to deciding whether it was a part of God's plan that we could never do anything about, or whether it was a correction long overdue.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:21 pm 
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/01/14/science.mind.reut/index.html

That answers part of my question, the 'why' part.

If you 'believe' you feel better. There appears to be a direct physical reward for ignoring the evidence.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:00 pm 
Pronto wrote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/01/14/science.mind.reut/index.html

That answers part of my question, the 'why' part.

If you 'believe' you feel better. There appears to be a direct physical reward for ignoring the evidence.


Question.

Why does it bother you so much that people believe in God?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:23 pm 
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Gerald wrote:
Why does it bother you so much that people believe in God?


I suspect it wouldn't bother him so much if people didn't use that belief to justify idiocy and hatred.

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Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:25 pm 
What Jerm said.

Further, you make a big assumption. Firstly, I believe in a god.

But I don't pound my beliefs up your ass. I don't force your children to learn my faith. I don't kill people for believing different things from me. And I don't let my priests rape children and use my faith to hide them from justice.


(Ger, I know that you don't do those things either.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:47 pm 
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jeremiahsmith wrote:
Gerald wrote:
Why does it bother you so much that people believe in God?


I suspect it wouldn't bother him so much if people didn't use that belief to justify idiocy and hatred.


Yah. God, save me from your followers, as the bumper sticker goes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:12 am 
Gerald wrote:
Pronto wrote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/01/14/science.mind.reut/index.html

That answers part of my question, the 'why' part.

If you 'believe' you feel better. There appears to be a direct physical reward for ignoring the evidence.


Question.

Why does it bother you so much that people believe in God?


I can't speak for Pronto, but I know it also bothers me when people believe in astrology, crystals or the god of parking.

Pronto wrote:
Further, you make a big assumption. Firstly, I believe in a god.

:hammer:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:48 pm 
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Pronto wrote:
What Jerm said.

Further, you make a big assumption. Firstly, I believe in a god.

But I don't pound my beliefs up your ass. I don't force your children to learn my faith. I don't kill people for believing different things from me. And I don't let my priests rape children and use my faith to hide them from justice.


(Ger, I know that you don't do those things either.)


What Pronto said.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:38 am 
There are religions out there that think that the whole world is merely a testing ground for people, and all the bad things that happen are merely a part of that test.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:54 am 
Earth is on big guinea pig...

Makes you wodner what would happen in the "real" world not?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:12 pm 
My question is, who ever said God was nothing but love, light and forgiveness?

I know the Lord I worship is light and dark, both hunter and prey, life and death.

Intresting fact I heard on the news, in India, many buddists aren't suffering overwhelming grief in face of this major catastrophe. They have been taught that death is part of life and are better able to deal with what happened and move on with life with out compromising their faith.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:21 pm 
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Mrs. Keradon wrote:
My question is, who ever said God was nothing but love, light and forgiveness?


Um, the Christians, among others.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:42 pm 
Mrs. Keradon wrote:
My question is, who ever said God was nothing but love, light and forgiveness?

I know the Lord I worship is light and dark, both hunter and prey, life and death.



When I speak of 'god', as opposed to 'my god' or 'your god' I'm speaking of the christians god. It's a numbers game. Personal gods and cult gods are in such a minority it's safe to assume 'god' refers to Jehovah.

Christians do, rather myopicly, try to claim "love, light and forgiveness" as attributes of their god.

I have to ask, why worship a god that isn't about "love, light and forgiveness"? (I suspect the answer is 'power'. Which would explain why the 'dark' religions are feared and hunted. :))


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:18 pm 
Pronto wrote:
Mrs. Keradon wrote:
My question is, who ever said God was nothing but love, light and forgiveness?

I know the Lord I worship is light and dark, both hunter and prey, life and death.



When I speak of 'god', as opposed to 'my god' or 'your god' I'm speaking of the christians god. It's a numbers game. Personal gods and cult gods are in such a minority it's safe to assume 'god' refers to Jehovah.

Christians do, rather myopicly, try to claim "love, light and forgiveness" as attributes of their god.

I have to ask, why worship a god that isn't about "love, light and forgiveness"? (I suspect the answer is 'power'. Which would explain why the 'dark' religions are feared and hunted. :))


When is life exculsively love, light and forgiveness?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:48 pm 
Pronto wrote:
I have to ask, why worship a god that isn't about "love, light and forgiveness"? (I suspect the answer is 'power'. Which would explain why the 'dark' religions are feared and hunted. :))

Because he isn't about love, light, and forgiveness looks like a good reason to me... and to Jack Chick. Ok, so maybe it's not that good a reason.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:18 pm 
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Mrs. Keradon wrote:
When is life exculsively love, light and forgiveness?


It's not, which is the reason Pronto started the thread.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:55 am 
Mrs. Keradon wrote:
Pronto wrote:
Mrs. Keradon wrote:
My question is, who ever said God was nothing but love, light and forgiveness?

I know the Lord I worship is light and dark, both hunter and prey, life and death.


I have to ask, why worship a god that isn't about "love, light and forgiveness"? (I suspect the answer is 'power'. Which would explain why the 'dark' religions are feared and hunted. :))



Not willing to respond to my question, eh? Can't say I blame you, but you are going to lose a certain amount of credibility on these boards if you don't try.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:42 am 
I think "it makes more sense that way" is a perfectly acceptable answer, Pronto. Believing isn't just about feeling fuzzy inside.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:29 pm 
Honestly, a person with true faith in God (or whatever) would believe that we just have to trust in Him/Her/It. God's will cannot be understood by human beings; we must act on the belief that, no matter what happens, it is what should happen.

As the farmer in the Taoist parable said: "It's good or it's bad."

Of course, I'm not saying that that's the answer; hell, I don't know. But I think that asking whether or not we still like God is a tad too simplistic.


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