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The Nightstar Zoo • View topic - Heads God wins, Tails you lose.

The Nightstar Zoo

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:31 am 
Okay, this might not be enough to revive the forum, but what the hey...
This summer, I got to read C.S.Lewis's "Mere Christianity". Now, I love Lewis's writing, and I think he's skilled at analysis and at explaining stuff...And it was a good read...But some parts I just didn't agree with. I won't go over all of them here (we'll keep that around for another time), but there was this thing that puzzled me...And "Mere Christianity" wasn't the only place where I encountered it.

Basically, the idea goes like this: If you do something bad, it's your responsibility. But, if you do something good, you're letting God act through you or something like that...Not sure I really got the point, but basically, God gets the credit.
Lewis used the following analogy: Imagine a father gives his kid some money. The kid can use it on something he wants...Or he might decide to buy his dad a gift. Now, Lewis argues, this might please the father...But it would be silly to claim that he owes his kid, since it was bought with his money. Conversely, Lewis argues, people can't expect to get on God's good side through good behavior, because such goodness comes from God himself.

Okay. Now, I just don't think that really makes sense. Is there any reason to believe that everything that's rotten in people comes from them, and everything that's good flows from an outside source? If there is one, then I don't see it. So my question is...Is there an actual reasoning behind this belief? Or is it just a variation of "Heads I win, tails you lose"?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:46 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:13 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:33 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:29 am 
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Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:53 pm 
Heh. Well, in my opinion, just because someone is created good or evil it doesn't make them less responsible for their actions...My whole point was that Lewis was using a double-standard. Either we get both the blame and credit, or neither - to give us one wihout the other seems like a blattant fallacy to me (it works the other way too - if someone said "I deserve credit for the good stuff I've done, but don't blame me for my misbehaviour - I was born/created that way" wouldn't have much credibility).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:17 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:31 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:29 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:10 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:39 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:09 pm 
Well, looking at the theology surrounding Lewis, an argument should be made that you shouldn't be wanting to take credit for good things. That's pride, which is a venial sin and to be avoided. And of course, accepting blame for doing bad things fosters guilt, which is one of the favorite tools of organized religion just about everywhere.

Personally, I think this method of avoiding venial pride bears a lot of resemblance to hiding from a bear by closing your eyes and insisting it's not there. But that's just the opinion of one incorrigable Socinian heretic. =)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:44 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:14 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:47 pm 


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