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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:07 pm 
...what do you all think of the AW ban expiring?

Here's my take on it: That law, as passed, made as much sense as outlawing red cars to control speeding. It was stupid, and I'm glad it's gone.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:02 pm 
I don't know a whole lot about it, but it's my experience that generally, automatic weapons are bad.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:50 pm 
The General wrote:
I don't know a whole lot about it, but it's my experience that generally, automatic weapons are bad.


The law didn't have anything to do with automatic weapons.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:25 am 
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My opinion: It's about damn time. Wish they'd repeal everything up to and including 1934 NFA.

Also: Yay! I can get high-cap mags for my Sig Pro! 15 rounds of .40 S&W or .357 SIG! YAY!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:59 am 
Could somebody explain to me a bit what it's about? I'm not all that familiar with US gun laws...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:42 am 
Mravac Kid wrote:
Could somebody explain to me a bit what it's about? I'm not all that familiar with US gun laws...


The law was sold as an "assault weapons" ban. Groups agitating for the ban ran TV commercials showing people blasting away with full-auto weapons, which have been tightly controlled since 1934 - and the actual law affected only semi-auto weapons.

In a nutshell, the actual "AW" law only affected semi-auto rifles with certain features, like bayonet lugs and flash suppressors - leaving untouched other rifles with identical operation, but lacking the "ugly" features. It was sold as an anti-gang, anti-crime measure.

Horseshit.

When was the last time you heard about a gang doing a drive-by bayoneting?

Thing is, rifles of any type are almost never used in crime. When a rep from New Jersey was campaigning for such a law at the state level, he went to the Trenton PD to get a confiscated weapon to use in testimony. Trenton's a pretty high-crime area. They told him, "We've never seen one."

The law also prohibited the manufacture or import of magazines with capacity of over 10 rounds. Again, horseshit. It never touched the enormous supply of magazines already in existence - it would have been flatly impossible, there are millions of them - and, again, except for a very few highly-publicized incidents, they're almost never used in a crime.

Here in the US, we've achieved quite a drop in violent crime rates. We've done it by putting violent criminals in prison and keeping them there. The FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics informs us that, historically, 80%+ of the violent crimes are committed by about 10% of the criminals. Our States are passing "three-strikes and you're out" laws - conviction of three violent felonies gets you life with no parole - and that's taking these assholes off the streets.

Like I said, it was a stupid law. It was like banning red cars to control speeding. It died a well-deserved death.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:52 pm 
Ah, so. Indeed, from what I understand most crimes are comitted using handguns and machine pistols, usually 9mm caliber. The kind that's easy to conceal, and quick to use.

Not much sense walking around the street carrying a Kalashnikov on your way to rob a bank, unless you're in Falluja, eh? :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:20 pm 
Mravac Kid wrote:
Ah, so. Indeed, from what I understand most crimes are comitted using handguns and machine pistols, usually 9mm caliber. The kind that's easy to conceal, and quick to use.

Not much sense walking around the street carrying a Kalashnikov on your way to rob a bank, unless you're in Falluja, eh? :)


I took an Army school with a reservist who, in civilian life, was an LAPD officer. He said he'd love it if the gangs all started carrying AK's. His quote: "I could unholster my 9mm and double-tap three of them in the time it took for them to drag their AK's out of their baggy pants."


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:01 pm 
Animal wrote:
Mravac Kid wrote:
Ah, so. Indeed, from what I understand most crimes are comitted using handguns and machine pistols, usually 9mm caliber. The kind that's easy to conceal, and quick to use.

Not much sense walking around the street carrying a Kalashnikov on your way to rob a bank, unless you're in Falluja, eh? :)


I took an Army school with a reservist who, in civilian life, was an LAPD officer. He said he'd love it if the gangs all started carrying AK's. His quote: "I could unholster my 9mm and double-tap three of them in the time it took for them to drag their AK's out of their baggy pants."


A piece of lead will make you dead 'long as it hits the heart or head.

And that piece of lead don't give a shit whether it just came out of a rifle or a pistol.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:01 pm 
DarthBaboon wrote:
Animal wrote:
Mravac Kid wrote:
Ah, so. Indeed, from what I understand most crimes are comitted using handguns and machine pistols, usually 9mm caliber. The kind that's easy to conceal, and quick to use.

Not much sense walking around the street carrying a Kalashnikov on your way to rob a bank, unless you're in Falluja, eh? :)


I took an Army school with a reservist who, in civilian life, was an LAPD officer. He said he'd love it if the gangs all started carrying AK's. His quote: "I could unholster my 9mm and double-tap three of them in the time it took for them to drag their AK's out of their baggy pants."


A piece of lead will make you dead 'long as it hits the heart or head.

And that piece of lead don't give a shit whether it just came out of a rifle or a pistol.


I like Col. Cooper's version: "Two in the chest and one in the head, always leaves your target dead."


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:36 pm 
try that with something like a forty-five, the third bullet misses but thats okay because your target now has a hole big enough for a train in his torso.

mine own carry piece: Kimber pro carry .45 with federal 185 grain hydro-shock hollowpoints, in a inside the belt holster on my right hip, butt of the gun backwards with an extra mag strapped to the other hip, and an NAA guardian in .25 on my ankle. also, an extendable baton in my left pocket.

yes, i am a scary person.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:29 am 
Ogredude wrote:
My opinion: It's about damn time. Wish they'd repeal everything up to and including 1934 NFA.

Also: Yay! I can get high-cap mags for my Sig Pro! 15 rounds of .40 S&W or .357 SIG! YAY!

If ya can't hit your target in ten... :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:25 pm 
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If you need more than 5 rounds (6 chamber revolver, empty chamber under the hammer), you SERIOUSLY need to hit the range more.

If you're up against more than two targets, your best bet is to use your feet.

Machine pistols - full automatic weapons in general are remarkably STUPID anti-personnel weapons. Unless it's something like an American 180, you're not going to be able to aim more than the first two rounds, and at that point, you're just throwing lead around.

That's what "machine guns" were designed for - throw a lot of lead in a general direction to force soldiers to keep their heads down, so that you could hopefully let the artillery and snipers do the real killing job. Hand-held jobs are generally only useful for 'bursts', or maiming a lot of people in a crowd - as long as you don't care which people, and you're standing in the middle.

I want a Supreme Court that can actually read a dictionary, and starts throwing out all the laws that are contrary to the 2nd Amendment. THEN we'll see crime go up slightly, then drop like a rock.

BW

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:12 am 
Bookworm wrote:
Machine pistols - full automatic weapons in general are remarkably STUPID anti-personnel weapons. Unless it's something like an American 180, you're not going to be able to aim more than the first two rounds, and at that point, you're just throwing lead around.


Unless you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:08 am 
Animal wrote:

When was the last time you heard about a gang doing a drive-by bayoneting?


Why is this so FUNNY to me? Heeheehee.... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:08 am 
Animal wrote:
Mravac Kid wrote:
Ah, so. Indeed, from what I understand most crimes are comitted using handguns and machine pistols, usually 9mm caliber. The kind that's easy to conceal, and quick to use.

Not much sense walking around the street carrying a Kalashnikov on your way to rob a bank, unless you're in Falluja, eh? :)


I took an Army school with a reservist who, in civilian life, was an LAPD officer. He said he'd love it if the gangs all started carrying AK's. His quote: "I could unholster my 9mm and double-tap three of them in the time it took for them to drag their AK's out of their baggy pants."

Q. What goes BANG BANG BANG... Clop ...clop ..clop
A. an amish drive by shooting.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:28 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
Machine pistols - full automatic weapons in general are remarkably STUPID anti-personnel weapons. Unless it's something like an American 180, you're not going to be able to aim more than the first two rounds, and at that point, you're just throwing lead around.


Unless you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator.


I think I'd pay money to watch a video of that.

That's about the same level as a duel with shotguns at 3 paces.

BW

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:25 pm 
Bookworm wrote:
Animal wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
Machine pistols - full automatic weapons in general are remarkably STUPID anti-personnel weapons. Unless it's something like an American 180, you're not going to be able to aim more than the first two rounds, and at that point, you're just throwing lead around.


Unless you're in a shootout inside a crowded elevator.


I think I'd pay money to watch a video of that.

That's about the same level as a duel with shotguns at 3 paces.

BW


I've got a pretty spectacular scar on my left leg, put there by a 12-gauge shotgun at about 3 feet. They hit pretty damn hard at that range.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:28 pm 
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How'd that happen? Someone forgot their safety when carrying the gun pointed down? (in front/behind you. It's really hard to shoot yourself with a shotgun by accident)

BW

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:02 pm 
12-gauge at 3 feet? That could take your leg off... :-/

BrassyDel wrote:
Animal wrote:

When was the last time you heard about a gang doing a drive-by bayoneting?


Why is this so FUNNY to me? Heeheehee.... :lol:

Because it is? :)

Man, if they only did use bayonnets in gang wars... that would be awesome. :)
And I daresay it'd make people think twice about joining gangs... I think seeing someone's guts pour over your shoes is not something people would be eager to repeat. Not to mention having your guts poured over somebody else's shoes.

Grumpy_Penguin wrote:
Q. What goes BANG BANG BANG... Clop ...clop ..clop
A. an amish drive by shooting.

LOL :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:14 pm 
Bookworm wrote:
How'd that happen? Someone forgot their safety when carrying the gun pointed down? (in front/behind you. It's really hard to shoot yourself with a shotgun by accident)


Exactly that, except that the safety was broken.

It had worked perfectly when we got out of the car maybe three minutes earlier - I saw him check before loading. Then, as we walked down a trail through a patch of woods, he tripped, and bang. At least he did have the gun pointed down, or I'd have taken the charge in the back instead of in the leg - and I probably wouldn't be here writing this now.

Ever since then I've carried guns with the chamber empty (or the action open in singles and doubles) until I'm ready to shoot.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:05 pm 
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Bookworm wrote:
Hand-held jobs are generally only useful for 'bursts', or maiming a lot of people in a crowd - as long as you don't care which people, and you're standing in the middle.
BW


Or leaning half out of a car driving along a parallel track, which would describe most gang drive-bys, wouldn't it?

Accuracy? Who needs that? Aim? Nah...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:04 pm 
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Ishidan wrote:
Bookworm wrote:
Hand-held jobs are generally only useful for 'bursts', or maiming a lot of people in a crowd - as long as you don't care which people, and you're standing in the middle.
BW


Or leaning half out of a car driving along a parallel track, which would describe most gang drive-bys, wouldn't it?

Accuracy? Who needs that? Aim? Nah...


That's actually even worse. You combine a jolting, moving, vehicle with the lack of ability to aim, and you end up with something that might as well be throwing peanuts at your target.

You'll hit everything BUT your target.

If you want to do a drive by shooting, you're better off with an area effect weapon - Streetsweeper, pump action shotgun, hand grenade, or land mine.

BW

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