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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:55 pm 
Yes, I know this has been done elsewhere, but now we know the parameters of what is possible. (I also know that either end is the aft, but the subject line is funnier this way.)

So, ideas anyone?

Here's mine.

Duplicate the original end as closely as possible, but the replacement annieplant is a hollow sphere packed with 10 meter anniplants.

They lose a lot in total power capacity, but they *look* like they're up to spec, and more importantly when/if they find/buy a replacement annieplant they can easily refit back up to thier original specs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:23 pm 
Today's strip implies that that is a insufficent solution to the Annie Plant problem. The strip seems to be implying that, while not necessary for regular function, the redundant annie plant is necessary for battle power (maybe there is a max cycle time or something?) If your choices are "Look like a qtip sticking out of caviar" and "monoatomic dust" I know which I would choose...

(the weapons of the Schlockberse have been described as all or nothing before. Either you're all dead, or you're not hurt. Very badly, at least.)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:27 am 
Well, based upon today's strip, I think it's possible to come up with a fairly accurate artist's impression of the finished ship.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:04 am 
Interesting, if that big blue bubble is the annie plant, then how many terraquads was the Post Dated Check Loan putting out? That had an annie plant the size of the Athens!

AS for multiple annie plants . . .its possible that certain weapons (gravy guns and particle projectors) require variable amounts of energy depending on situation, also, shields need variable energy. So if suddenly everything is needed at full power, the other plant kicks in. If the other one is damaged and has to core dump, then the other one kicks in so you don't loose battle field efficency and can limp/terraport to safety.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:20 am 
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Ship power demands on a UNS destroyer look like this:

1) Gravy guns -- 60% to full output of the plant
2) Unifield Shielding -- 20% to full output of the plant
3) Acceleration -- 10% to full output of the plant (note that there is no acceleration without generation of some shielding).
4) Conventional weapons blisters -- 2% to 10%
5) Fabber -- 1% to 10% (assuming piles of material to work with)
6) Life support .01% or less, assuming hull integrity.
7) Computers -- .001% or less

Thus we see that the primary plants are critical for combat operations. Smaller secondary or tertiary annies can and do easily supply everything else.

--Howard

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:01 am 
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Is there any particular reason why one couldn't wire up a couple annieplants in parallel?

Or use them to pump a supercapacitor which then runs the systems?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:33 am 
SuicideJunkie wrote:
Is there any particular reason why one couldn't wire up a couple annieplants in parallel?

Or use them to pump a supercapacitor which then runs the systems?


It looks like Kevyn's trying to do just that, right now - note the caviar comment. The problem with power generation seems to be that, at least for combat conditions, the gravy guns take a LOT of juice, and that probably demands the full (or near full) attention of a full-sized 60m plant. The shields and acceleration you could probably pull power for off the secondaries, but the energy requirements for the gravy guns may require one plant just to provide the energy, or at least more energy than is wasted trying to transport it to the guns (especially if you're assuming FTL or some other fancy energy-transmission method).

As far as capacitors go, I'm wondering if it'd be a) healthy to keep that much power stored in such a device, and b) how you'd handle the energy transmission to/from it, since that adds complexity to something that SHOULD be powered by direct-feed (unless you want to fire your gravy guns once or twice, and hope the rest of the missiles and fighters coming in don't hit you while you wait for the capacitor to recharge).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:59 am 
Correction, dakkagor... the PDCL had a primary annie-plant which's diameter was pretty close to the length of the Athens. See panel 4 of this strip. Big difference. Near the same proportion of difference as 216 vs. 6 10-meter plants. :D

His question stands. How many teraquads could Petey put out at max output?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:08 pm 
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Q-tip in Caviar?

Could be worse. Keyvn could have been a fan of LEXX.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:59 pm 
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Howard Tayler wrote:
Ship power demands on a UNS destroyer look like this:

[...]
7) Computers -- .001% or less


Well, darn. That means "shutting off the computers to conserve power" is never a viable excuse.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:00 pm 
When an annie-plant breaks down, can it be said to be spewing neutronium?
Or even when it's running normally.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:48 pm 
WS_Rashana wrote:
Q-tip in Caviar?

Could be worse. Keyvn could have been a fan of LEXX.


And EW.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:37 pm 
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Haesslich wrote:
As far as capacitors go, I'm wondering if it'd be a) healthy to keep that much power stored in such a device, and b) how you'd handle the energy transmission to/from it, since that adds complexity to something that SHOULD be powered by direct-feed (unless you want to fire your gravy guns once or twice, and hope the rest of the missiles and fighters coming in don't hit you while you wait for the capacitor to recharge).
For A), it wouldn't nessesarily need to store very much energy at all, just buffer it so the systems on one side can't tell the difference between a 60m plant and the giant ball of caviar.


b) The feed would be the same as normal ... just splice it in.

And, you don't need to wait for the capacitor to recharge, since you're pumping energy in just as fast as out...
If you actually drain this capacitor system with weapons/shields, then you're putting out more juice than a stock destroyer should be able to, if only for a short time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:23 pm 
SuicideJunkie wrote:
Haesslich wrote:
As far as capacitors go, I'm wondering if it'd be a) healthy to keep that much power stored in such a device, and b) how you'd handle the energy transmission to/from it, since that adds complexity to something that SHOULD be powered by direct-feed (unless you want to fire your gravy guns once or twice, and hope the rest of the missiles and fighters coming in don't hit you while you wait for the capacitor to recharge).
For A), it wouldn't nessesarily need to store very much energy at all, just buffer it so the systems on one side can't tell the difference between a 60m plant and the giant ball of caviar.


b) The feed would be the same as normal ... just splice it in.

And, you don't need to wait for the capacitor to recharge, since you're pumping energy in just as fast as out...
If you actually drain this capacitor system with weapons/shields, then you're putting out more juice than a stock destroyer should be able to, if only for a short time.


Actually, from today's strip, it appears that the theory regarding 'most of the energy drain' with Gravy guns is correct, and that you get a direct-feed from the generators. In this case, the secondary array can't provide enough power to power up yet another gravy gun, which the previously-extant primary generator did. Haban2 does make a good point about the relative worth of one extra gravy gun, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 1:02 am 
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Indeed. Annie-plant output can be transduced into pretty much any form of energy, but the reason they're so valuable to a warship is that their raw output is gravitic. And the problem is that the only capacitor for gravitic energy is mass, so you have to generate what you need on the fly.

As for explaining why 216 10m plants cannot match the gravitic output of a single 60m plant, analagous comparison might be best. Consider: if you lack the machine tolerances to rifle a thirty-inch barrel, can you properly equip your sniper with 10 three-inch barrels?

--Howard

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:10 am 
You most certainly can, for very careful definitions of "properly equip." My favorite would be that your sniper is "properly equipped" if he filled out all of the forms for his equipment properly, and the quartermaster assigned him whatever the supply depot could spare given current supply conditions.

Whether said sniper would consider himself properly equipped is beyond the scope of this musing, but one can venture a guess or two.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:19 am 
Howard Tayler wrote:
As for explaining why 216 10m plants cannot match the gravitic output of a single 60m plant, analagous comparison might be best. Consider: if you lack the machine tolerances to rifle a thirty-inch barrel, can you properly equip your sniper with 10 three-inch barrels?

I guess not - but they could make a very nice shotgun or gatling gun.

Hmm, considering that this may be the first time anyone's had to concentrate so many small annie-plants in one place, maybe Kevyn or Haban2 will be able to come up with some new application of gravitic weaponry to take advantage of the design.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:51 am 
Karma_B wrote:
Howard Tayler wrote:
[I]f you lack the machine tolerances to rifle a thirty-inch barrel, can you properly equip your sniper with 10 three-inch barrels?

I guess not - but they could make a very nice shotgun or gatling gun.


Three inches is a bit snub-nosed for that. Think something more like the early 19th century 'pepperpot' pistol (an early form of revolver with six barrels, mounted so that the barrels themselves rotated into firing position one at a time).

But the point was that you still won't get a sniper rifle that way, and a short-barrelled firearm simply won't replace it in those cases where it is needed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:00 am 
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Howard Tayler wrote:
Indeed. Annie-plant output can be transduced into pretty much any form of energy, but the reason they're so valuable to a warship is that their raw output is gravitic. And the problem is that the only capacitor for gravitic energy is mass, so you have to generate what you need on the fly.

As for explaining why 216 10m plants cannot match the gravitic output of a single 60m plant, analagous comparison might be best. Consider: if you lack the machine tolerances to rifle a thirty-inch barrel, can you properly equip your sniper with 10 three-inch barrels?

--Howard
Oooh, right. I'd forgotten that direct-grav production...

Now, since it is a beam weapon, sure ;) Just make sure they're all locked into the proper phase (if appropriate) and aimed at the same spot.
And use 100 barrels to get the same aperture size.
Plus a bit more to compensate for reduced efficiency.

PS: Why are you trying to snipe with a weapon that big?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:26 am 
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Oh, 30 inches that direction?

Why couldn't it be built a piece at a time?
Have the fabber make a nice set of arced plates, and then snap them together. The fabber, or presumably smaller equipment normally used to patch them up could be used to properly fill the seams...
If you take it a step at a time, there's no reason why you have to enclose the entire thing at once, right?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:38 am 
SuicideJunkie wrote:
Oh, 30 inches that direction?

Why couldn't it be built a piece at a time?
Have the fabber make a nice set of arced plates, and then snap them together. The fabber, or presumably smaller equipment normally used to patch them up could be used to properly fill the seams...
If you take it a step at a time, there's no reason why you have to enclose the entire thing at once, right?


Because the arced plates would have their dimensions wrong also.

Smaller annieplants are either less dimension-critical or scaling to large dimensions is not reliable in this fabber.

Actually it could also be that larger anniplants use a different set of equipment for dimensioning than the smaller ones, and due to annieplant construction techniques the smaller scale equipment can't be used.

We really need more data to determine exactly what type of problem this fabber has.

I also wonder if Ennesby has gone poking around in there looking for a new home.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 2:39 pm 
Why should he? He's almost certainly got better hardware where he is now.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:07 pm 
Anon wrote:
Why should he? He's almost certainly got better hardware where he is now.


We don't know what kind of gear is running the fabber, so it *might* be better than his current boxen.

He also might be interested in a new giant brain that makes toast. (Mmm....Smart Toaster)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:36 pm 
BBlalock wrote:
Anon wrote:
Why should he? He's almost certainly got better hardware where he is now.


We don't know what kind of gear is running the fabber, so it *might* be better than his current boxen.

He also might be interested in a new giant brain that makes toast. (Mmm....Smart Toaster)


As long as it doesn't yell "Howdy-doodly-do!" for a battle-cry, I think all will be well.

Keeping in mind what happened the last time I can remember Kevyn messing about with gravitics - the look on Petey's (RIP) face was priceless.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:34 am 
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BBlalock wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:
Oh, 30 inches that direction?


Ohh, yeah. Sniper with a 30 inch diameter barrel. Just what you need to take out a man-sized target from orbit. And his entire neighborhood.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:20 am 
Tuyu wrote:
SuicideJunkie wrote:
Oh, 30 inches that direction?


Ohh, yeah. Sniper with a 30 inch diameter barrel. Just what you need to take out a man-sized target from orbit. And his entire neighborhood.


Well you've got to make sure you get *all* of the target's vital organs, don't you?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:06 am 
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A well armed and well paid sniper is a happy and productive sniper. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:12 am 
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Schlock Mercenary - the only community where people will assume that 30 inches is the diameter of a sniper rifle's barrel without raising an eyebrow :)

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Last edited by gnolam on Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:22 pm 
That's got to go on a banner add.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:22 pm 
It's already on my sig. Many thanks for the quotable, gnolam!


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