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The Nightstar Zoo • View topic - In Which We Discuss Science and Religion

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:42 pm 
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Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

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Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:54 pm 
Religious: Relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity.

You'll get no argument from me. It's the ultimate reality as observed by a whole lot of skeptical rationalist (mostly) white (mostly) guys. As opposed to the ultimate reality as observed by a few zealous romanticist (mostly) white (almost exclusively) guys. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:00 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:07 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:23 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:25 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:26 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:29 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:33 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707
So soccer is a religion?

Man, that would explain a lot.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:10 pm 
Offline
Nightstar Graveyard Daemon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:30 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Wouldn't you rather observe my Velocity?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:12 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 10:12 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:39 am 
By "bonding moment", do you mean you've stuffed his body somewhere?


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:21 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:34 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:44 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 4:59 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:11 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:09 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:05 am 
Offline
Janitor
Janitor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:15 pm
Posts: 2388
Location: In the middle of the Pacific Ocean, somewhere.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Concession Worker
Concession Worker
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:26 pm
Posts: 1479
Location: R'lyeh

_________________
Living in a state free from the burdens of privacy and democracy since 2008-06-18.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:49 am 


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:04 pm 
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Nightstar Graveyard Daemon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:30 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Wouldn't you rather observe my Velocity?


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:09 pm 
Perhaps we need a word to fit between 'advocacy' and 'fanaticism' without a conotation of belief if the supernatural.

See, if you do belive in the supernatural, 'religious' can fit into this place. But even then 'religous can also cover just about anything non-apathetic. But the word 'religious' has the inherent conotation of belief in the supernatural, whether it has that denotation or not. And that offends people like Jer that are adamant in thier non-belief in the supernatural.

I've met those who advocate science well beyond the logical limits of science. For instance, I have met people that actually believe that science has or will prove the non-existance of God. Now pure science would say that it is incapable of PROVING the non-existance of God, all it can do is possibly disprove specific claims about God and provide non-supernatural answers to questions and mysteries. These people believe in science in very much the same way so many others believe in God. They don't believe in science as a method for discovering truth, they believe in Science as the Truth.

Can we say that they have made science their 'religion'?

I think that what we see elsewhere (and what I think Chalain is specifically refering to) is the actions of people that are zealous in thier advocacy of something. Because those actions are often very similar to those of religious people in regards to their religion. Sports teams, high schools, universities, nations, gangs, and families are all entities that have evoked this type of 'proto-religious' behavior. People act in support or defence not because of any logical reason IN THAT INSTANCE, but because it is an entitiy they have given alliegance to. There may be perfectly valid reasons for that alliegance. But if someone opposes something, and you leap to defend it with no thought of the validity of the opposition, but because 'you' (in the form of the entity) were attacked, then I would consider that 'proto-religious' behaivior. You have acted out of belief rather than thought.

There are many steps on the path of belief/faith. Personally, I believe that science is the best way for us as humans to study, learn about, and try to understand the world around us. That puts me at a certain level of belief in science. I also believe that my religion is the best place to learn about why this world exists and what I should do about it. I'm at a much higher level of belief in my religion. There are some who believe that science is the only way to understand the world. They would probably be much higher on the 'belief in science' scale.

I think that at some point of belief you could define the believed in entity (God, science, the Easter Bunny) as a 'religion'. Because that is how you define your interface with the world. Because you by default see things in terms of, and act according to, the tenets of that 'religion'. Because you believe that that entity is correct and has truth. And because you reject alternate interfaces as flawed, false, and/or incorrect.

Venerate, worship, faith, believe, truth, prophet, doctrine, and zealot are words and concepts generally associated with religions that have a belief in the supernatural. But if someone venerates the precepts of science, believes in the ability of science to find truth over all other methods, and is a zealous advocate of the scientific methods as a way to approach life, then are they not treating science 'religiously'?

If I had another word I'd use it. But until then I must say that there are people out there who have taken science as their religion.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:53 pm 
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Nightstar Graveyard Daemon
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:30 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: Wouldn't you rather observe my Velocity?


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:36 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:44 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:30 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:14 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:05 pm 
ahh, thread necromancy, my old aquaintance, we meet again.


Greyseal, of course science doesn't require belief to work. I don't remember any claiming it did. What WAS claimed is that many people react to science similarly to the many other react to religion.

In other words, while science is not a religion there are some who treat it as such, including adherents and detractors thereof.



On a side note: Some might make the claim that religion, or God at any rate, does not require belief/faith to work either. Acording to Judeo-Christian beliefs some of God's most impressive acts have occured specificlly to or because of unbelief. (Many of these were also very unpleasent for the participants.)


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