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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Whep, this is sorta what we were suspecting.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:43 pm 
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You know, I think I know exactly what those agents are up to.

The inhabitants of the All-Star are there because they're in hiding - but now they've been discovered, and they know from the crew imprints and/or ship logs that Urtheep has their location on file. Jozagle's Purse was trying to cover up the location of Stellar Enclosure 4118-6 - by destroying every record of its location.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:46 am 
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Guess nobody ever told them about the Streisand Effect


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:42 am 
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tryingtobewitty wrote:
You know, I think I know exactly what those agents are up to.

The inhabitants of the All-Star are there because they're in hiding - but now they've been discovered, and they know from the crew imprints and/or ship logs that Urtheep has their location on file. Jozagle's Purse was trying to cover up the location of Stellar Enclosure 4118-6 - by destroying every record of its location.



Yep, it's like I said here, the inhabitants of the "All-Star" are trying to stay hidden at all costs. So sorry green dude with long whiskers, but your body is expendable for this cause. Oh, and don't expect to be leaving any time soon. Or at all.

Though if the All-Star is successful at concealing it's whereabouts, then it remains to be seen how the Toughs come in. Stumbling across a cool dark object in space, even one as big as a Matroishka brain, is damn near impossible, what with space being so mind-bogglingly big and all.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:25 pm 
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macnut wrote:
tryingtobewitty wrote:
You know, I think I know exactly what those agents are up to.

The inhabitants of the All-Star are there because they're in hiding - but now they've been discovered, and they know from the crew imprints and/or ship logs that Urtheep has their location on file. Jozagle's Purse was trying to cover up the location of Stellar Enclosure 4118-6 - by destroying every record of its location.



Yep, it's like I said here, the inhabitants of the "All-Star" are trying to stay hidden at all costs. So sorry green dude with long whiskers, but your body is expendable for this cause. Oh, and don't expect to be leaving any time soon. Or at all.

Though if the All-Star is successful at concealing it's whereabouts, then it remains to be seen how the Toughs come in. Stumbling across a cool dark object in space, even one as big as a Matroishka brain, is damn near impossible, what with space being so mind-bogglingly big and all.

It happened once, it could happened again. If they can retrace the discovering ship's search routine they could get an approximate idea of where it was around them time it discovered the brain.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:32 pm 
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If the brain simply wanted to keep themselves a secret they would have hijacked the initial scouts that found the place, rather than allowing them to report back. They have to be up to something else, some more complicated arrangements.

Edit: I was working off the previous strip. Guess I'm just super wrong about everything today, hohoho.


Last edited by ExenTrik on Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:44 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
If the brain simply wanted to keep themselves a secret they would have hijacked the initial scouts that found the place, rather than allowing them to report back. They have to be up to something else, some more complicated arrangements.


This.

Location of the stellar enclosure isn't secret at all. Urtheep Industries sent Jozagle's Purse to investigate and freighter Tzundigo to ferry Schlockiverse equivalent of hard drives. Obviously they knew exactly where to send those ships, which means that location isn't secret at all. It most likely isn't public (because Urtheep wants to profit from discovery) but isn't secret at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:59 pm 
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Which is why the ongoing mission of the hijacked former crew of the Purse is probably to find and delete all records of that location. And possibly "delete" anyone with that knowledge in their heads as well - I begin to see where the Toughs may come in...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:12 pm 
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...Did Evvy find an exploit in RedHack's hardened variant?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:23 pm 
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We don't actually know if this species is using the hardened redhack. They are new to us, which means they probably aren't terribly close to the UNS. And who knows how far the Oapha and Petey have spread it otherwise.

Though if anyone was going to hijack a "hardened" augmentation like redhack I would expect it to be this kind of massive computer. Nothing is perfectly defended after all. If there is a way for information to get inside, and a way for that information to affect the consciousness, then someone on the outside can make changes with enough effort. And that's pretty much required of anything alive.

Also as for Evvy not keeping the scouts from reporting it's a massive stellar brain, but it's not omnipotent. It probably took some time for it to identify them and figure out a way to hack their brains. If it could perfectly react to and counter intruders as they showed up, then it would be powerful enough that it wouldn't really have to hide in the first place.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:14 pm 
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M[i]ech wrote:
Location of the stellar enclosure isn't secret at all. Urtheep Industries sent Jozagle's Purse to investigate and freighter Tzundigo to ferry Schlockiverse equivalent of hard drives. Obviously they knew exactly where to send those ships, which means that location isn't secret at all. It most likely isn't public (because Urtheep wants to profit from discovery) but isn't secret at all.
Physically speaking, it would be basically impossible to hide such a thing, anyway. The technology to detect such a structure already exists today. If someone built such a thing, we would KNOW, because an object that radiates all of its energy in the infrared band only is highly odd. It's been there for a few million years at this point, so absolutely everyone in the entire galaxy can see it. It's why someone went there in the first place. Stealth in Space is not a thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:36 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
We don't actually know if this species is using the hardened redhack. They are new to us, which means they probably aren't terribly close to the UNS. And who knows how far the Oapha and Petey have spread it otherwise.

Though if anyone was going to hijack a "hardened" augmentation like redhack I would expect it to be this kind of massive computer. Nothing is perfectly defended after all. If there is a way for information to get inside, and a way for that information to affect the consciousness, then someone on the outside can make changes with enough effort. And that's pretty much required of anything alive.

Also as for Evvy not keeping the scouts from reporting it's a massive stellar brain, but it's not omnipotent. It probably took some time for it to identify them and figure out a way to hack their brains. If it could perfectly react to and counter intruders as they showed up, then it would be powerful enough that it wouldn't really have to hide in the first place.

Hmm, if these guys don't have redhack, then what if dear Evvy used something like redhack to take over them? Won't he be in for a surprise if the Toughs turn out to be immune...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:05 am 
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grahamf wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
We don't actually know if this species is using the hardened redhack. They are new to us, which means they probably aren't terribly close to the UNS. And who knows how far the Oapha and Petey have spread it otherwise.

Though if anyone was going to hijack a "hardened" augmentation like redhack I would expect it to be this kind of massive computer. Nothing is perfectly defended after all. If there is a way for information to get inside, and a way for that information to affect the consciousness, then someone on the outside can make changes with enough effort. And that's pretty much required of anything alive.

Also as for Evvy not keeping the scouts from reporting it's a massive stellar brain, but it's not omnipotent. It probably took some time for it to identify them and figure out a way to hack their brains. If it could perfectly react to and counter intruders as they showed up, then it would be powerful enough that it wouldn't really have to hide in the first place.

Hmm, if these guys don't have redhack, then what if dear Evvy used something like redhack to take over them? Won't he be in for a surprise if the Toughs turn out to be immune...


I would be honestly surprised if the Toughs were immune. Petey has shown the capability to subvert redhack and redhack-like safeguards. He doesn't most of the time because its against his morals.

But these guys have shown no such qualms. And with their computing capacity and apparent expertise in uploading and downloading between digital and organic bodies I'd put them at least on par with Petey in that area.

The only thing I can really see is if the method they use to deliver the subversion can be blocked by something the Toughs have. Neither of the Urtheep ships were expecting trouble. It's possible that simply having warship class shields up will be enough. If not I don't see the redhack hardening work. It will likely devolve into them being downloaded and attacking the stellar brain from the inside.

Actually if that happens Evvy will learn about the long guns that Chinook has from their memories. And for an AI built to safeguard itself this heavily, and with no way of moving, the mere threat of those will probably be enough to make it negotiate.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:05 am 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Actually if that happens Evvy will learn about the long guns that Chinook has from their memories. And for an AI built to safeguard itself this heavily, and with no way of moving, the mere threat of those will probably be enough to make it negotiate.

I'd be more concerned about Evvy trying to subvert Chinook.

Granted, that'd be tricky to do as she has vowed to live on as a wraith if her core is destroyed.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:44 am 
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Fishman wrote:
M[i]ech wrote:
Location of the stellar enclosure isn't secret at all. Urtheep Industries sent Jozagle's Purse to investigate and freighter Tzundigo to ferry Schlockiverse equivalent of hard drives. Obviously they knew exactly where to send those ships, which means that location isn't secret at all. It most likely isn't public (because Urtheep wants to profit from discovery) but isn't secret at all.
Physically speaking, it would be basically impossible to hide such a thing, anyway. The technology to detect such a structure already exists today. If someone built such a thing, we would KNOW, because an object that radiates all of its energy in the infrared band only is highly odd. It's been there for a few million years at this point, so absolutely everyone in the entire galaxy can see it. It's why someone went there in the first place. Stealth in Space is not a thing.

In a setting with teraport technology, this really doesn't seem like an unsolvable problem. Just gather the heat to into a localized area, and shunt it into some colder region of space. They could probably even suck in concentrations of gas to feed their small star to extend its lifespan if needed.

We haven't seen any sign of extensive teraport use, but I suspect that's more restraint than inability. After all, they copied and rewrote the crew of those ships with some clearly nonlocal effect.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:57 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
We haven't seen any sign of extensive teraport use, but I suspect that's more restraint than inability. After all, they copied and rewrote the crew of those ships with some clearly nonlocal effect.

If the were hiding for the same reasons as the Oafans, they'd be avoiding any usage of teraport technologies.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:00 pm 
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This is an interesting example of how language develops. Manyara Emm's people knew of a security defect in RED (or maybe a secret backdoor), and developed an exploit that hijacked people who used RED. They called their exploit Redhack because it hacked RED (made RED do things it wasn't designed to do). RED was succeeded by RED-REO (where the defect has been fixed so that Redhack no longer works). Now you guys are using "redhack" to refer to RED-REO, even to the point of talking about "an exploit in redhack" even though Redhack itself was an exploit. It demonstrates how malleable the meaning of a word is. Complex words like "retroexocephaloderm" or "RED-REO" are perceived as too cumbersome, so a short and easily pronounced word like "redhack" gets appropriated instead. As long as the word's meaning is somehow related it suffices to make the reader or listener associate in the right direction and figure out what was meant. The association happens more easily the second time, and before long the word takes on the new meaning.

Arcanestomper wrote:
Also as for Evvy not keeping the scouts from reporting it's a massive stellar brain, but it's not omnipotent. It probably took some time for it to identify them and figure out a way to hack their brains. If it could perfectly react to and counter intruders as they showed up, then it would be powerful enough that it wouldn't really have to hide in the first place.

And even if it could have hijacked the scouts faster than they could phone home and say "we found something", Urtheep Industries would still have known the coordinates the scouts teraported to right before they disappeared. They would have sent search parties, and when those also disappeared it would have been obvious that there was something dangerous there.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:10 pm 
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evileeyore wrote:
ExenTrik wrote:
We haven't seen any sign of extensive teraport use, but I suspect that's more restraint than inability. After all, they copied and rewrote the crew of those ships with some clearly nonlocal effect.

If the were hiding for the same reasons as the Oafans, they'd be avoiding any usage of teraport technologies.

Yes, but remember they were completely capable of it after removing the mothballs from their ships. While the teraport can be weaponized against them, a very occasional utilitarian use of it isn't likely to be noticed. The real key was not having any active gravitics or annie plants for them to feel, and using the star for fuel is the key there.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:14 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
evileeyore wrote:
ExenTrik wrote:
We haven't seen any sign of extensive teraport use, but I suspect that's more restraint than inability. After all, they copied and rewrote the crew of those ships with some clearly nonlocal effect.

If the were hiding for the same reasons as the Oafans, they'd be avoiding any usage of teraport technologies.

Yes, but remember they were completely capable of it after removing the mothballs from their ships. While the teraport can be weaponized against them, a very occasional utilitarian use of it isn't likely to be noticed. The real key was not having any active gravitics or annie plants for them to feel, and using the star for fuel is the key there.

Iirc the cindercone twins could tearaport massive amounts of matter while barely being detectable. There may be a "Null-Star" somewhere that is a fixed reference to all the best the all-Star is getting rid of to hide itself.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Rombobjörn wrote:
This is an interesting example of how language develops. Manyara Emm's people knew of a security defect in RED (or maybe a secret backdoor), and developed an exploit that hijacked people who used RED. They called their exploit Redhack because it hacked RED (made RED do things it wasn't designed to do). RED was succeeded by RED-REO (where the defect has been fixed so that Redhack no longer works). Now you guys are using "redhack" to refer to RED-REO, even to the point of talking about "an exploit in redhack" even though Redhack itself was an exploit. It demonstrates how malleable the meaning of a word is. Complex words like "retroexocephaloderm" or "RED-REO" are perceived as too cumbersome, so a short and easily pronounced word like "redhack" gets appropriated instead. As long as the word's meaning is somehow related it suffices to make the reader or listener associate in the right direction and figure out what was meant. The association happens more easily the second time, and before long the word takes on the new meaning.


I knew it wasn't actually redhack at this point. But I couldn't remember what the current version of the technology was called or any obvious points I could browse to to look it up. So yeah redhack is just easier to remember and use.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Arcanestomper wrote:
Rombobjörn wrote:
This is an interesting example of how language develops. Manyara Emm's people knew of a security defect in RED (or maybe a secret backdoor), and developed an exploit that hijacked people who used RED. They called their exploit Redhack because it hacked RED (made RED do things it wasn't designed to do). RED was succeeded by RED-REO (where the defect has been fixed so that Redhack no longer works). Now you guys are using "redhack" to refer to RED-REO, even to the point of talking about "an exploit in redhack" even though Redhack itself was an exploit. It demonstrates how malleable the meaning of a word is. Complex words like "retroexocephaloderm" or "RED-REO" are perceived as too cumbersome, so a short and easily pronounced word like "redhack" gets appropriated instead. As long as the word's meaning is somehow related it suffices to make the reader or listener associate in the right direction and figure out what was meant. The association happens more easily the second time, and before long the word takes on the new meaning.


I knew it wasn't actually redhack at this point. But I couldn't remember what the current version of the technology was called or any obvious points I could browse to to look it up. So yeah redhack is just easier to remember and use.


Do we know, or even reliably suspect, that RED-REO has achieved widespread use? Or that it's been ported to this species, yet?
It seems most probable to me that the meathacking that happened did not rely on the hacked brain having a newly installed i/o port with root privileges.
It's possible that the meathack installed an i/o port as part of the operation.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Sean wrote:
I knew it wasn't actually redhack at this point. But I couldn't remember what the current version of the technology was called or any obvious points I could browse to to look it up. So yeah redhack is just easier to remember and use.


Do we know, or even reliably suspect, that RED-REO has achieved widespread use? Or that it's been ported to this species, yet?
It seems most probable to me that the meathacking that happened did not rely on the hacked brain having a newly installed i/o port with root privileges.
It's possible that the meathack installed an i/o port as part of the operation.[/quote]
It's been long enough that anyone who wanted the immortality should be able to get it, assuming there weren't onerous local laws saying otherwise. Or worse, an archaic health insurance system. But the immortality deal probably doesn't come with the off-meat backup service package, unless you're a member of the military.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:10 pm 
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re- today (Sun)
"Oh, you stupid fuckers...."

Well, this won't be pretty at all 8O


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:45 pm 
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ExenTrik wrote:
Sean wrote:
Arcanestomper wrote:
I knew it wasn't actually redhack at this point. But I couldn't remember what the current version of the technology was called or any obvious points I could browse to to look it up. So yeah redhack is just easier to remember and use.


Do we know, or even reliably suspect, that RED-REO has achieved widespread use? Or that it's been ported to this species, yet?
It seems most probable to me that the meathacking that happened did not rely on the hacked brain having a newly installed i/o port with root privileges.
It's possible that the meathack installed an i/o port as part of the operation.

It's been long enough that anyone who wanted the immortality should be able to get it, assuming there weren't onerous local laws saying otherwise. Or worse, an archaic health insurance system. But the immortality deal probably doesn't come with the off-meat backup service package, unless you're a member of the military.


Unless it was priced outside of most sophants budget.
In general, new developments are available only to those who can afford them at first, then trickle down to the masses.
Considering the very real concern of overpopulation, as indicated by Earth's interest in the PTU hulls, there may have been no rush to make them available to all comers at a discount price until that other issue, of housing, was resolved.

Mind you, if I was an octogenarian, looking at dying in the not too distant future, and there was a solution, but I couldn't afford it, I MIGHT be a little bitter.
If I was the kid or spouse of an octogenarian, not wanting to lose my parent or spouse, I might feel a little rebellious.
If I was a widower, I might not care all that much. And I might have found a new reason to keep on living.

P.S. the preview button will let you see if you're breaking quotes.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Sean wrote:
ExenTrik wrote:
Sean wrote:
I knew it wasn't actually redhack at this point. But I couldn't remember what the current version of the technology was called or any obvious points I could browse to to look it up. So yeah redhack is just easier to remember and use.


Do we know, or even reliably suspect, that RED-REO has achieved widespread use? Or that it's been ported to this species, yet?
It seems most probable to me that the meathacking that happened did not rely on the hacked brain having a newly installed i/o port with root privileges.
It's possible that the meathack installed an i/o port as part of the operation.
It's been long enough that anyone who wanted the immortality should be able to get it, assuming there weren't onerous local laws saying otherwise. Or worse, an archaic health insurance system. But the immortality deal probably doesn't come with the off-meat backup service package, unless you're a member of the military.


Unless it was priced outside of most sophants budget.
In general, new developments are available only to those who can afford them at first, then trickle down to the masses.
Considering the very real concern of overpopulation, as indicated by Earth's interest in the PTU hulls, there may have been no rush to make them available to all comers at a discount price until that other issue, of housing, was resolved.

Mind you, if I was an octogenarian, looking at dying in the not too distant future, and there was a solution, but I couldn't afford it, I MIGHT be a little bitter.
If I was the kid or spouse of an octogenarian, not wanting to lose my parent or spouse, I might feel a little rebellious.
If I was a widower, I might not care all that much. And I might have found a new reason to keep on living.

P.S. the preview button will let you see if you're breaking quotes.

Red-reo is open source. As long as you have a fabber you can become immortal.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:19 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Red-reo is open source. As long as you have a fabber you can become immortal.

Well, a fabber and plans/instructions compatible with your species....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Black Sheep wrote:
grahamf wrote:
Red-reo is open source. As long as you have a fabber you can become immortal.

Well, a fabber and plans/instructions compatible with your species....

Which as Ebby was unfortunate enough to demonstrate is a non-trivial problem, despite the weakly godlike fleetmind doing the design work for the Unioc RED-REO, any species that doesn't have access to that level of capability is going to have a rough time building their own version of RED-REO


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:15 pm 
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If longguns are a concern, and the Tough's are taken, they'll probably learn about a whole lot of long guns and people who are watching the toughs ... and then that there are three different ships, co-ordinating, and reporting to those long guns ...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:02 pm 
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grahamf wrote:
Red-reo is open source. As long as you have a fabber you can become immortal.

Most people don't have a fabber. They seem to be expensive or hard to get hold of. The Kitesfear didn't have a fabber, and the lack of a fabber on board the Serial Peacemaker was a major plot point. Apparently those who have fabbers aren't using them to fab fabbers for everyone else.

Also, while fabbers can make many things, there are some things they can't do. I don't think it has been established that they can make blood nannies.

On the other hand, apparently all you need is some watermelons.

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