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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:17 am 
It's really funny how our commander got from melting metal to rubbing sticks there ... i kind of expected him to mention some sort of home-made annie plate there as well for good measure ;)

Now to hope the sticks wont be used only for making fire but also in a sharp-sticky letal way sometime ;)

Werner


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:52 am 
The fact that he's going to use his headstone as a weapon/source of fire brought a question to mind:

Is it desecration if it's your own grave?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:46 am 
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Is it desecration if it's your own grave?


Only if you are still in it! 8O


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:07 am 
He's waving those sticks in a very ninja-like way.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:42 am 
Well, his left hand is doing the ninja thing. His right appears to be scratching his back...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:09 am 
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:26 pm 
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Ryder P. Moses wrote:
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


I've done it twice.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:21 pm 
Howard Tayler wrote:
Ryder P. Moses wrote:
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


I've done it twice.


In what, 40 some-odd years?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:33 pm 
If he looks around a little he'll probably find the parts for a fire bow and drill. MUCH easier than just two sticks.

I'm really looking forward to this storyline though. I think we're going to see Kevyn going McGuyver quite a bit.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:49 pm 
I hope he does McGuyver a lot. I'd love to see that! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:51 pm 
Heh.

I've gone through that process of repeatedly downgrading one's expectations to arrive at something feasible myself at time or two, albeit not quite to that extreme. I know the feeling.

(I dispute the "Y chromosome" bit, tho' - the most incorrigible pyromaniac I've ever known is a woman. ;) )


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:35 pm 
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Today's Engineering lesson centers on a simple principle I like to call "Learning to do without."

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Last edited by Betsumei on Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:53 pm 
Bast_Elf wrote:
I hope he does McGuyver a lot. I'd love to see that! :D


When I read the words "does McGuyver", I couldn't help but hope that Kevyn's going to grow a mullett...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:25 pm 
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His stubble has grown out. Maybe he used leftover nannies from Elf's hair extensions?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:46 pm 
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I agree that fire with two sticks is crazy hard. In fact, given that the climate doesn't appear to be particularly cold, it might be a waste of energy that should be better spent foraging for edible food.

Speaking of food, I've got to think that Kevyn is very, very hungry right about now. The nanites may have healed him, but all that energy and materials had to come from somewhere.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:08 pm 
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Personally, my thinking process would go like this:

1) Something just tried to eat me--and pretty much succeeded, because someone buried me afterwards.
2) Being eaten and buried hurts.
3) I need a weapon so as to avoid having the the hurty stuff happen to me again.

I personally would have gone for a sharp stick first, as it takes only a couple minutes to make and would buy time while I found something better (like fire). But, fire counts as a weapon, and also has several other uses, so maybe that's why Kevyn skipped straight there.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Well, considering that he's been lying there helpless for a day already, if anything was around to eat him, it already would have.

There's no immediate need for defense.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:50 pm 
I take it that Kevyn hasn't taken any form of outdoor survivalist training. In terms of priorities, making a fire is relatively the easiest/least necessary. Finding some form of shelter and something to eat, especially when you aren't familar with the local flora/fauna, are much harder to do. The energy spent rubbing two sticks together, even if you are successful, provides much less benefit that spending that energy looking for calories to intake. But the effort does make a nice looking fire, and also smoke. Maybe Kevyn figures he is not totally stranded and is interested in the smoke.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:59 pm 
The good thing with fire is that you only need ot make it once. From that point on, it is helpfully self propagating.

Pointy sticks are a dime a dozen and he will probably cook up at least a dozen while looking for firewood. And a fire hardened spear is significantly better than one freshly cut. Also, this is a tropical climate so the only reason for shelter is to keep bitey things off you. And, as we have seen, the bitey things here need a foot thick palisade wall fifteen feet high with spikes at the top to keep them out. A tent or a reed hut just isn't going to do the job. Most animals are, however, scared to death of fire and are hesitant to nab even unarmed prey sitting right next to it. So a good roaring fire is also shelter. A good torch will keep things from pouncing on you as much. Oh, and cooked food is good because you can actually eat meat without becoming violently ill.

Face it. Fire rocks.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:35 pm 
Howard Tayler wrote:
Ryder P. Moses wrote:
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


I've done it twice.

I notice you didn't say it was easy :wink:
Actually it will work if he takes a small vine and makes a bowdrill out of the longer stick that way he can get up some speed speed= friction friction=heat


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:15 am 
If he'd made certain to get the Doyt mods when he was regrown he wouldn't be having this problem. Assuming he gets out of this alive I wonder if he'll ask about them when he's gettting his solider boosts.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:02 am 
Ryder P. Moses wrote:
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


It works much better if you add a thick piece of bark, a string, and a cup-shaped rock.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:37 am 
figmentius wrote:
I take it that Kevyn hasn't taken any form of outdoor survivalist training. In terms of priorities, making a fire is relatively the easiest/least necessary. Finding some form of shelter and something to eat, especially when you aren't familar with the local flora/fauna, are much harder to do. The energy spent rubbing two sticks together, even if you are successful, provides much less benefit that spending that energy looking for calories to intake. But the effort does make a nice looking fire, and also smoke. Maybe Kevyn figures he is not totally stranded and is interested in the smoke.


You can be forgiven for being a bit rusty. But the #1 priority of anyone in a survival situation is to maintain the will to live. Sometimes that means doing things that don't strictly make sense just yet, just to keep the spirits up. A fire is like that, and if it doesn't take too much effort to produce, has profound effects.

Kevyn would do well to find some more sticks and some kind of stringy plant though. A firebow is the easiest way to make a friction fire that I know of*. Also, no matter how he makes the first coals he's going to need more materials to burn.

*and it's not easy. I've only done it once. I have managed to get the flint&steel thing workin' a few times, but I cheated: I brought a big baggie of drier lint to catch the first sparks. In theory, kevyn shouldn't need to smelt the ore though. Flint & pretty much anything but flint should make some kind of spark. and any ore that's lying around on a pre-tool-user planet is likely to still be pretty high grade.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:26 am 
Ryder P. Moses wrote:
Man, that whole making-a-fire-by-rubbing-two-sticks-together thing is crazy hard. I still harbor the suspicion left over from my Boy Scout years that the whole thing is just an updated version of the snipe hunt, something the adults tell not particularly bright kids on camping trips to keep them busy for a few hours.


As the esteemed Mr. Tayler pointed out, it can indeed be done. But it's definitely not the method of first choice.

There's a reason my paranoia pack items include a couple of plain old Bic lighters, a pack of matches and a magnesium fire starter.

But I'm paranoid. I always have some method of starting a fire stashed on my person. Along with a knife, some sort of multi-tool, and a small flashlight.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:34 am 
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If you have the knowledge and a bit creativity, making a fire is not difficult. What is hard is the imagination apply what you know in a practical fashion!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:28 am 
Just wanted to echo that Kevin shouldn't be wasting his time trying to start a fire right now. Water, food, shelter, or even finding out where his friends are all much better uses of his time. Even if he wanted to use fire to attract his friends his current location is unlikely to be ideal for that, and he's forgotten step one to starting a fire: gather fuel. (Ideally small, easy-to-burn fuel. It is easier of have a bonfire of dry grass than to light a log.)

Notably, his friends aren't trying to start a fire. What do you want to bet they have more expericence in low-tech situations? And probably also know something he doesn't?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:38 am 
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DStaal wrote:
Notably, his friends aren't trying to start a fire. What do you want to bet they have more expericence in low-tech situations? And probably also know something he doesn't?


No bet. The remainder of the crew is being led by Elf, who we know has extensive experience in guerrilla operations. See earlier in this storyline.
Then they are backed by Pronto, who can probably make explosions with just about anything, and Schlock, who could bring a lot more strength and hands to bear on the problem.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:49 am 
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Marcos wrote:
It works much better if you add a thick piece of bark, a string, and a cup-shaped rock.

"If he can remember, Doctor. If he can remember..." :P

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:12 pm 
didnt anyone here do the boy scout thing when they were younger (or older depending on the case i guess) I had to get a firestarter badge to be promoted. to get said badge, i had to light 15 fires in one weekend, under different conditions (including pouring rain lucky for me) with only the two sticks method..and they had to be recorded by the damn troop leader. I also had to squelch said fires, and make sure the fire site was secure from flare ups before it was considered a good attempt. Tell me they do this in the states and other countries and not just canada...

edit: spelling


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:13 pm 
Whoa, gotta keep up with this thread *starts reading it from where he left it*:)

Todays (2006-11-13) comic reminded me of some pretty cool experiment by Rob Cockerham in which he tried to easily (heh) create some fire with two sticks (or rather "without matches") .... just read & watch for yourself :D

EDIT: To quote him after he did some research:
Quote:
One of the problems with trying to start a fire without matches is that everyone has an idea of how to do it. Everyone has either seen a diagram, or an educational film, or watched a Powerpoint presentation, or seen an animatronic Indian do it, but hardly anyone has actually sat down and done it.

I must admit i never did try to star a fire with stick myself (at least not withoput a power drill ;) ), but i'll get some time to do it soon :D

I suggest everyone to visit Robs site at least once (start with the "how much is inside" category) ... you wont be sorry ;)

Werner


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