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 Post subject: Why god?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:24 am 
The quintessence of religion:

http://www.partiallyclips.com/pages/archive.php?id=1012&b=1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:57 pm 
Can't really argue with ducks I guess....

*sigh* the board dies again. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:57 pm 
C'mon people, post something insulting!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:27 am 
Quote:
C'mon people, post something insulting!

*ahem*
"I sincerely believe that religion is one of the worst thing that ever happened."
Is that insulting enough?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:04 am 
Sun Tzu: "No, that would be L5N."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:22 am 
:rofl:

Thats one damn tough call, Anh Minh.
Religion? L5N? Hmmm.
Can we just outlaw both?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:33 am 
I was tempted to write "GW Bush", but this isn't Donkeys & Elephants.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:44 am 
lol


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:30 am 
"L5N"? What's that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:40 am 
Level5Nerd.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:49 am 
Haven't seen him for a while myself... :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:50 am 
What? We misplaced one of our non-compos-menti? Say it ain't so!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:51 am 
Quote:
I was tempted to write "GW Bush", but this isn't Donkeys & Elephants.


I know lots of people that dislike him religiously. (I don't myself but hey, who's asking?) :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:09 pm 
sun tzu wrote:
Quote:
C'mon people, post something insulting!

*ahem*
"I sincerely believe that religion is one of the worst thing that ever happened."
Is that insulting enough?


I disagree. Religion was vital to the emergence of our civilization. Without it, we'd likely never have survived.
The bad part is that now that we don't really need it anymore, we're refusing to let it go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 8:46 pm 
Wouldn't have survived? Doubt it. Why would you say that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:28 pm 
I'll one up that.

I'd like some actual evidence--just from the General, for now, to see if he can back the claim up--that any value in Religion is strictly in its utility, and why even then it should be let go because the utility is not as important now. A possible implication from your statement is that anything that is not vital for the structure of society should be disgarded.

Any particular reason why the existence of religion should only rest on this so-called vitalness to the emergence of civilization? Do you judge any other aspects of the world the same?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:14 pm 
Actually I don't believe that we should discard religion, but I do believe that it isn't necessary to uphold society anymore. Not ours, at least.

For the rest- eh. Why would we have made many of the advances we've made without the belief that we could fulfill some greater purpose? Consider how religious people have been in the past. Without the feeling that there is meaning to our lives- as that feeling is the core purpose of religion; validation for human existance- we probably wouldn't have felt the drive necessary to get as far as we have. And maybe not. I dunno.

(incidentally, "survived" is a stronger word than I meant.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:35 am 
Many of the major philosophical developments that led to the modern scientific worldview owe their existence to religion. William of Occam was a monk...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:37 am 
Exactly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 2:22 am 
Religion has gotten along quite well without logicical thought. Science could have done without religion.

I'm sure Copernicus had doubts about religions value to science.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:05 am 
Edison was an atheist. And so have were many others. I'm pretty sure that the guy who invented fire did it out of simple survival instinct, not for a greater purpose.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:36 pm 
Aeschylus thought a god ( well technically a titan) Prometheus gave humanity science


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:19 pm 
gwalla wrote:
Many of the major philosophical developments that led to the modern scientific worldview owe their existence to religion. William of Occam was a monk...


That might imply a correlation, but not necessarily a causal correlation. "Many people are both A and B" does not imply "Being A causes being B." Yes, people who are very philosophical are often also very religious. But is the philosophicalness caused by the religiousness, or is the religiousness caused by the philosophicalness, or are they simply independent effects of the same root cause?


-=-Barnabas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:22 pm 
Offline
Official Village Idiot
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2002 3:08 am
Posts: 822
Location: Room L, Hotel Raffles, Luna City
Da Vinci was a deeply religious man, as was Newton. Galileo remained faithful to the day he died, despite his troubles with the Church. Was their faith an inspiration to them? Perhaps. The fact remains that much of our modern science is built on the work of these three men.

From an artistic point of view, the influence of religion is undeniable. Some of the greatest artistic triumphs throughout history have been religious in nature - think of the Song of Solomon, The Canturbury Tales, Michaelangelo's David, Da Vinci's The Last Supper, Handel's Messiah - even modern works like Let it Be show religious influence. And those pieces I mentioned (with the exception of the first) are all Christian. There are thousands of religions in the world, and each and every one has its associated art, music, pageantry, etc.

Quote:
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Psalms 23:1-4


Whether or not you believe this passage to be true, it's hard not to see the poetry that faith inspired in it.

_________________
"Vox populi? Vox humbug!"
- William Tecumseh Sherman
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:10 pm 
Religion is a good... I'm not sure of the word. Excuse? Reason? Anyway, it's been an important factor in getting money from common and aristocracy alike to artists and scholars.

I don't know how much religion inspired those men, but I do know religion helped pay the bills.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:31 pm 
Barnabas Truman wrote:
gwalla wrote:
Many of the major philosophical developments that led to the modern scientific worldview owe their existence to religion. William of Occam was a monk...


That might imply a correlation, but not necessarily a causal correlation. "Many people are both A and B" does not imply "Being A causes being B." Yes, people who are very philosophical are often also very religious. But is the philosophicalness caused by the religiousness, or is the religiousness caused by the philosophicalness, or are they simply independent effects of the same root cause


Being a monk was pretty much the only way to be an intellectual for a while there in the middle ages. This of course changed in the Renaissance.

And some older philosophical ideas that predate Christianity owe their continued existence to religion...the Catholic church and Islam preserved a lot of Plato and Aristotle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:57 pm 
sun tzu wrote:
Quote:
C'mon people, post something insulting!

*ahem*
"I sincerely believe that religion is one of the worst thing that ever happened."
Is that insulting enough?


.....yeagh, pretty much. For me anyway. But then again, I really don't want to argue. But by posting this I just might get into an argument. O well, I'll see what happens anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:00 pm 
sun tzu wrote:
Edison was an atheist. And so have were many others. I'm pretty sure that the guy who invented fire did it out of simple survival instinct, not for a greater purpose.


I don't think anyone exactly invented fire.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:18 pm 
Offline
Vorpal Bunny Slipper
Vorpal Bunny Slipper

Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:54 am
Posts: 2707
Okay... discovered the usefulness of fire and how to make, control, and use it.

_________________
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, grab es tief unten im Keller ein.
Später dann graben es andere aus, und nennen dein Haus das Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, leg auch ihre weißen Schädel hinein.
Mit Beton gießt du es aus, das Fundament vom Knochenhaus.
Scharr, scharr, verscharr das Gebein, da ist noch Platz, da paßt noch wer rein.
Hier tobte sich der Teufel aus, unten im Keller im Knochenhaus.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:26 pm 
jeremiahsmith wrote:
Okay... discovered the usefulness of fire and how to make, control, and use it.


damn straight! Fire was there way before humans were. It's so nice to have an argument to win. Too bad no one comes to me stating things like "The world is flat!", or even "You dont' have any hair". No one ever gives you arguments you can very very easily win, alteast I don't get any. But then again, I'm not very good at winning arguments.


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